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Old 07-30-2010, 05:18 AM   #16
hegobald
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One good reason why I prefer Slackware.
http://blog.sillica.com/2008/06/11/d...h-us-anything/
 
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:53 AM   #17
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,



Pinhead? Go back under the bridge pinhead troll.

Commercial is the keyword that you used.

If your happy with paying then by all means then do so.
Don't come to a Slackware forum with poor arguments and weak at that which are nothing more than babble. Talk about religious then your speaking in 'tongues' and probably no one to interpret properly anyway. Poor!

You don't know control let alone a GNU/Linux distribution as to how it should truthfully and trustfully function or how to maintain a decent reliable system. Got your RHCE? Send it to me and I'll put it to good use. TP! I can't though, my septic would get messed up by using the cheap cert paper to wipe. I guess it could be done and then sent back to you fully certified.
You took personal umbrage at a remark aimed at people you don't know?

It seems you are likely a good example of what I said. This is a religious argument and you are clearly a zealot of Slackware.

I didn't say it wasn't a good distribution but rather that the arguments the folks at the OPs company didn't hold water. You have as much control on any distribution of Linux as you want because you can always compile source as I said. Also I did NOT only talk about Commercial in my post - I noted that Ubuntu is more widely used (though I don't use it myself). If you prefer to assume someone who didn't know you existed was talking about you and ignore other things they said in order to make your point then you likely ARE a pinhead and I won't bother responding to your next diatribe.
 
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:22 AM   #18
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaperen View Post
You're saying that professionals competent with Slackware are too few in number, and it would be expensive to find a replacement?
More or less. Most employers like to hire people experienced on what they are using. I'm not saying folks experienced on Ubuntu/RedHat/Suse or any number of other distributions couldn't competently administer Slackware in short order but rather than employers typically don't like to hire someone who doesn't have direct experience with what they use. I've seen this time and time again in my career.

This doesn't mean that if you know Slackware you couldn't do RedHat or Suse or Ubuntu (or any number of other distributions) or vice-versa but rather that there ARE administration differences between distros that do require some learning.

This is also true of UNIX administration. I've worked on many different UNIX variants and am always amazed at how insistent potential employers are that new employees come in knowing what they are using. I once got a job on Solaris because I had 2 years experience on a specific Sun platform whereas as woman I knew who had been doing Sun and Solaris much longer couldn't even get an interview because she didn't happen to have experience on that hardware.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 09:26 AM   #19
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
You took personal umbrage at a remark aimed at people you don't know?

It seems you are likely a good example of what I said. This is a religious argument and you are clearly a zealot of Slackware.

I didn't say it wasn't a good distribution but rather that the arguments the folks at the OPs company didn't hold water. You have as much control on any distribution of Linux as you want because you can always compile source as I said. Also I did NOT only talk about Commercial in my post - I noted that Ubuntu is more widely used (though I don't use it myself). If you prefer to assume someone who didn't know you existed was talking about you and ignore other things they said in order to make your point then you likely ARE a pinhead and I won't bother responding to your next diatribe.
I guess the below quote doesn't count as a statement about commercial distributions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
.

For a corporate environment though using Slackware means they're likely not going to get competent professionals (as RedHat and Suse are the dominant commercial distributions) or even most hobbyists as from what I can see most of them love and use Ubuntu. Your argument to your manager then might be "Who do you hire to work on it if the Slackware fans leave?"
I'm not a zealot nor religious when it comes to a distribution. I save that for personal believes!
I posted in defense of what you presented wrongly in my opinion. The push or the damning of a distribution or bang it always seems to be a defacto standard for people who think in the same manner as you. Slam something they really don't understand thus presenting poor information or arguments.

As for control arguments for various distributions. Most have their unique functionality that sometimes actually gets in the way of the user. Not so with Slackware. Unlike your examples for Ubuntu or RedHat, Slackware provides a simple thoughtful and trustworthy means to control things. Be it the basic system or applications you can perform things without the overhead of the before mentioned distributions. Slackware is NOT a hold your hand distribution. With Slackware once you learn the semantics and syntax then one is prepared to perform the duties on any distribution. Say that about RedHat or Ubuntu? You can't! Once you learn things with Slackware then the user should be able to work with any GNU/Linux.

From your point then most Slackware users would be pinheads, zealots or whatever poor tag you wish to apply. My question to you then is: Why do you see most of the respondents tend to be Slackware users on the LQ forums? Not just the Slackware forum. I've been here a while but others have been here longer. They all seem to be reflective as trustworthy and responsive to everyone's queries not just Slackware posters.

So I guess we pinheads have some value to the GNU/Linux community!

 
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:26 AM   #20
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
A little early in the discussion for this, don't you think?
I think folks misread my pinheads comment - it was aimed at the OPs coworkers who gave what in my view were BS reasons for saying Slackware was superior. It was NOT aimed at all Slackware users or even at Slackware uses that think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The religious comment was NOT premature as I was saying that when you talk about what is "best" it is always an opinion and no matter how loud you yell it is still just an opinion. What I wrote is also just opinion but any time I see a discussion of "best" in technology when there are multiple choices I see it as "relgious" because it is purely subjective.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 09:45 AM   #21
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
I think folks misread my pinheads comment - it was aimed at the OPs coworkers who gave what in my view were BS reasons for saying Slackware was superior. It was NOT aimed at all Slackware users or even at Slackware uses that think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Fair enough.

But, why post into *the* Slackware forum and declare Slackware users to be pinheads? You did not provide a context for your observation, therefore we could rightly assume that you were insulting us.

I use CentOS at work in a VM, it is a good, sturdy distribution. However, I would never engage in name calling in the Red Hat forum here at LQ and call the members idiots for using their distro of choice. That is simply bad form, old boy.

You are entitled to your opinions about the inherent goodness of Red Hat. Please do not post such vile comments in our forum.
 
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:33 AM   #22
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
The religious comment was NOT premature as I was saying that when you talk about what is "best" it is always an opinion and no matter how loud you yell it is still just an opinion.
Not if you give reasons for having that opinion. The opinion may be subjective, but the reasoning doesn't have to be.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 12:50 PM   #23
jedi_sith_fears
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Why Slackware?

Simply because KISS & I like it.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 12:52 PM   #24
linuxs64
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There are bleeding-edge distros and those that are stable, with tried-and-tested packages. Both are part of the Linux eco-system. For linux to advance, testing and refining the code is crucial, the bleeding-edge users plays this part. I see no right or wrongs here.

I use CentOS too, in multiple VMs, to hone my skills for employment in linux related jobs. But the VMs run on slackware, it's the only distro I tried which is hassle-free to compile VirtualBox/VMWare, and it's fast.

The job-at-work defines you as RHEL/CentOS competent but computing at home shouldn't assume this role.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 12:53 PM   #25
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxs64 View Post
There are bleeding-edge distros and those that are stable, with tried-and-tested packages.
And Slackware strikes the best balance.

It obviously doesn't lean far in the bleeding-edge direction, but it stays up to date. A Slackware release and an Ubuntu release has equally new packages.

Last edited by dugan; 07-30-2010 at 01:24 PM.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 01:36 PM   #26
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
My question to you then is: Why do you see most of the respondents tend to be Slackware users on the LQ forums? Not just the Slackware forum. I've been here a while but others have been here longer. They all seem to be reflective as trustworthy and responsive to everyone's queries not just Slackware posters.
Perhaps this is because Slackware is one of the few (only?) distributions that hosts its 'official' forums on LQ? You can get just as much help from members of other distributions on this and other forums. I do not believe that Slackware users are generally more knowledgeable than users of other distributions, if for no other reason than our limited numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
You have as much control on any distribution of Linux as you want because you can always compile source as I said.
The difference is that Slackware forces you to use upstream configuration files, while other distributions allow you to use upstream configuration files while often providing an 'easier' way that most people use instead. You can 'learn Linux' (whatever that means) on any distribution if you want. You must 'learn Linux' on Slackware.

Of course you will never 'learn Linux' on Slackware as I stated before...and as a side note, PAM had slipped my mind in the last post and that is a major point. There is a significant learning curve when moving from Slackware to any other major distribution, just as the reverse is true.

Zealotry exists on both sides of the fence...there are legitimate advantages to using Slackware just as there are legitimate advantages to using any other major (or minor) distribution. Give Slackware a try. If you like it, great. If not, look elsewhere. I don't understand why these discussions always devolve so quickly.
 
Old 07-30-2010, 08:11 PM   #27
D1ver
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Personally, I've been a desktop linux user for about a year and a half now, and like pretty much everyone I started with Ubuntu. Its certainly a good distro and is doing a wonderful job of capturing new linux users.

However as I started to look around into other distros I found things in Ubuntu which I did not like. Namely, I found the way the packager manager adds and removes things from your computer to be a little annoying. "You want this package? well then your going to need these 5 Ubuntu specific libraries.. oh and you dont need these other packages anymore, let me remove them for you.."

Slackware avoids this completely by not handling dependency resolution and shipping vanilla packages. Additionally, new releases are made available when ready, not on a dead line, there is no committee or commercial interests involved. The forum community are insanely helpful, and seem very willing to answer any stupid questions I've had. As a distribution it feels more comfortable to me personally.

I'm converted.. Praise Bob.
 
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:55 PM   #28
slappyCruzer
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Smile slackware turned up for me in a week.

@T3slider :
I agree to most of your points. Thanks for very nice comments.

I had accidently met with slackware when I crashed my Ubuntu and it wasnt recovertable at all using nice fancy GUI tool for Partitioning.
So it was my first Vote for slackware, when simplicity & robustness wins over the latest packaged graphical stuff.


----------------------
To decide my final distro. I made dual boot my laptop and ran both the distros for a week. ( ubuntu & slackware )
I made all the basic things like updating the systme with required packages which includes.
a) picasa
b) google-chrome
c) avidemux
d) Gimp
e) vlc
f) restricted codecs.. & multimedia related stuff
g) webcam software .


on Uubntu:
---------
1) I personally liked earlier that my system is upto date daily and I am on the bleeding edge software updates. But then I realized that daily updates doesnt mean you are always have a right and secure thing in hand. ( as on Ubuntu-- the next day update comes to fix some security issues ..because of daily updates of other packages. ) and so on...

2) Ubuntu looks shiney/polished and most of point and click which may attract and may suits user coming from Windows background or for non-technical user base.

3) I found Gnome packages well built on Ubuntu as its being supported in main stream and hence a better & polished look. ( but does the look always matters )
anyone could achieve the same using nice compiz effects and additional fonts, so thats not a major factor to decide on.

4) I found several minor glitches on ubuntu which made a first bad impression.

5) Missing of a "root" user in Ubuntu has its own philosophy but when I come from a development environment in corporate company, it always sounds weired as, SUN/AIX/Redhat/... has a standard mechanism to protect certain privileges using root account.

6) Better thing is Ubuntu is its software package management : as When I clicked a .avi file , gnome-player directly asked me that software missing to play this file and on a single click my system updated with the desired package and I'm good to GO.


on slackware:
-------------

1) It looked very well built on first login and I found very huge list of desired packages directly available on http://slackbuild.org

2) after my investement of much time on setting up desired software, efforts went to "ZERO" updating the software. and my system is just running & running without need a KB downlod

3) I found that it actually using less amount of RAM & CPU while doing almost similar task ( RAM usage is noticable, as slackware is not that heavy on hardware )
anyway, this point may not be that valid as running Ubuntu (GNOME) and slackware ( KDE) definitely will have different RAM usage and depends on default services started.

4) I tried XFCE and its very good and good alternative of GNOME look ( GTK), if i'not trying other GNOME builds made for slackware.

5) Doing all the exercise above, I actually learnt some basics of Linux which Ubunut/Suse doesnt provide any feel of.

6) If I crash anything on Slackware, now I know in which file I need to make certain changes and I'll be Up & running again ( I sometimes crashed my Ubuntu & re-installed the OS as i didnt find that transparency )


7) The good point made earlier in comments, that it becomes a security issues when patches are made on kernel and just to make the system working. hence the frequent updates in Kernel as well ( which sometimes need a reboot ... may be not good if you are running a server like stuff.)


based on my experience, here is what I feel on rating of 5.
its just my opinion...




.............................Ubuntu.Scores....Slackware.Scores
Frequent.Updates......4......................1.(I consider low value good here )
Choices.of.Softwares..4......................3
Stability....................3......................5
Robustness...............2......................5
Hardware.Support.....5......................5
Customization...........4......................5
Boot.Time................5......................3


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
just to off this topic. once I heard a small story which gave a message like.

When we/company come into competition, we try to get fame/ attention and want to be alway ahead of others.
That's the same what a Rival also thinks and want to Do.
Greed is the thing which makes money in the pocket but makes loosing of happiness and peace. ( saying : money isnt the happiness )
The people, who just do not because of competition, but for happiness and peace gets a perfect balance.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
getting back on topic, I think thats somehow suits the slackware philosophy.
no commitment on next release, it would just come when its ready ( no pressure) its a Trust

Other distro in competition, got the fame but not the peace what slackware user has at end of the Day.


So its being a choice ( as what Linux is popular for ). I'm deciding slackware for becoming my Linux



Cheers!!!
SlappyCruzer..

Last edited by slappyCruzer; 07-31-2010 at 01:59 PM.
 
Old 07-31-2010, 02:10 PM   #29
hitest
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by slappyCruzer View Post
I'm deciding slackware for becoming my Linux
Awesome, great to hear that! I am certain that you will come to love Slackware.
 
Old 07-31-2010, 02:13 PM   #30
GrapefruiTgirl
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I enjoyed post # 28 in particular - very nice all around, and a good objective analysis too.
 
  


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