Vote for Patrick or AlienBob as Linux person of the year! :)
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It appears to me that the only person interjecting fanboyism et al curiously enough is a moderator.
Oh, is that so? Let's see, #54, by ChuangTzu:
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Looks like the Lennart fanboys were active the last 12 hours.
Apparently it was you to be the first to interject fanbyoism, so may I quote you again for accusing me to be the only one to interject fanboyism?
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Now, that I find strange.
Anyways:
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If people in a Slackware forum, in a thread about a particular poll that the Slackware founder and developer is included in, choose to chat and post about said poll, and choose to state that they would like to see a particular person win....How on earth is that fanboyism?
It becomes fanboyism when people become blind to the achievements of other persons or even have to insult them, accuse them of cheating and so on. It may be a strange concept for some people, but acknowledging that maybe some other person has done more for the Linux and Open Source ecosystem in 2015 than Mr. Volkerding or Mr. Hameleers does not diminish their work on Slackware. On the other hand, automatically voting for one of them whenever they show up in a poll without questions asked very much shows signs of fanboyism.
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Remind people to stay on track in a thread, perhaps, remind people of the rules of the forum--fine, but to interject your opinion as a way to influence the discussion and to scold the people involved in this thread, excuse me but that has a definite odor of hypocrisy.
So, it is hypocrisy to call people out for their own hypocrisy and not seeing the irony of their statements? To call them out for accusing others of influencing the poll, even accusing them of cheating, while this very thread exists to do exactly that, influence the polls to favor a specific person (or, since Mr. Hameleers got added, two specific persons)? To call other people fanboys while this very thread shows how fanboyism works? To call them out for their insulting behavior, not only against open source developers, distro maintainers, but also the majority of Linux users, while accusing others of being nasty persons?
Well, if that is, in your opinion, hypocrisy, then yes, call me a hypocrite.
Distribution: Slackware/Salix while testing others
Posts: 1,718
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It becomes fanboyism when people become blind to the achievements of other persons or even have to insult them, accuse them of cheating and so on. It may be a strange concept for some people, but acknowledging that maybe some other person has done more for the Linux and Open Source ecosystem in 2015 than Mr. Volkerding or Mr. Hameleers does not diminish their work on Slackware. On the other hand, automatically voting for one of them whenever they show up in a poll without questions asked very much shows signs of fanboyism.
Tobi, I respectfully disagree with regards to this thread. For quite a few people (who knows how many), 2015 was the year that systemd was accepted by the major distros, with Debian and Ubuntu being the last (or most recent depending on perspective).
It is a fact that Lennart repeatedly in interviews would point out that Slackware likes being in the 90's or doing things their way, and that distros that do not accept systemd are "toy distros".
I think for many in this thread the irony could not be mistaken if even in light of systemd's widespread acceptance, the "Linux of the Year" award went to one of the people and his distro. that resisted that major change, and successfully found a way to not need it (even if for the time being). The thread and poll are all about irony. That is why you see some people say they want RMS or PV to win and not Lennart. Its irony given the changes that have occurred in GNU/Linux over the last year.
So you just assume that I am uninformed about systemd?
If you disagree with what I said about systemd (which is actually not my own words, it's the words of Linux experts), then YES, I assume you are either uninformed or you like the fact systemd is extremely intrusive and tries to take over everything - far from being an init system. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
But I forgot... you have way more posts than me, so I should assume you are perfectly informed about everything and should not dare questioning your "arguments".
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD
Ah, I get it, another one of those that think that the UNIX philosophy is the only valid way to design programs. Now, throw out your X server, your office suite and , if you happen to use one, your desktop environment, since they are very likely to violate that paradigm also. But that would be inconvenient, wouldn't it?If you think that insults somehow improve your arguments: You are wrong.
Yes, the Unix/Linux philosophy is the only valid way to design things. If you disagree, why do you bother posting here in the first place?
Furthermore, you don't know what I use in my system, so you should not assume anything. For example, I don't use any office suite but LaTeX for word processing, and my own programs instead of spreadsheets. And maybe my "desktop" environment is just an Emacs-like window manager called StumpWM, modified to my liking, compiled from scratch, with a tiny memory footprint, and I have full control over it. How that violates the Unix philosophy, I don't know. Maybe you, the Illuminati, knows and can teach me?
As for the "insults", I don't see any. You either like systemd or not. If you do like it, then what I said in my previous post should not be an insult for you. If you don't like systemd, whatever I said does not affect you at all. In both cases, you are not insulted.
I am not going to bother arguing with you from now on, you reply or not.
As for the poll, well, I am happy pioneers like RMS and PV take the first seats, but I don't take the poll too seriously, because LP is there too. No serious poll about the "Linux Man of the Year" would even include LP in the candidates.
If you disagree with what I said about systemd (which is actually not my own words, it's the words of Linux experts), then YES, I assume you are either uninformed or you like the fact systemd is extremely intrusive and tries to take over everything - far from being an init system. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
Yes, systemd does far more than an init system should. Which is quite well explained by the fact that systemd is not an init system (though its development started as one). systemd is a set of building blocks (which happens to include an init system) that can be used to create an (Linux) OS and as such should be compared to other sets of building blocks, like Busybox, Toolbox or, in a broader sense, the *BSD base systems. Though, when you compare systemd to Busybox or Toolbox don't forget to tell their respective developers how un-UNIXy it is to put all the functionality in only one binary.
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But I forgot... you have way more posts than me, so I should assume you are perfectly informed about everything and should not dare questioning your arguments.
You can question my degree of being informed or my arguments if you want, but be so kind and do so with actual counter-arguments, not with assumptions. You may want to read in the systemd threads in the Slackware forum and check my posts in them to get a feeling if I am informed enough about systemd.
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Yes, the Unix/Linux philosophy is the only valid way to design things. If you disagree, why you are even bothering posting here?
Wait, people should only post in this forum if they agree to your opinion that the UNIX philosophy is the only valid to write programs? Even if there are countless example of programs that prove that there are oter valid ways to design programs?
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Furthermore, you don't know what I use in my system, so you should not assume anything. For example, I don't use any office suite but LaTeX for word processing, and my own programs instead of spreadsheets. And maybe my "desktop" environment is just an Emacs-like display manager called StumpWM, compiled from scratch, with a tiny memory footprint, and I have full control over it. How that violates the Unix philosophy, I don't know. Maybe you, the Illuminati, knows and can teach me?
Conveniently forgetting about the X-server, which is anything but conform to the UNIX philosophy. But hey, that is just a minor thing, and it would be really inconvenient without this un-UNIXy peace of software, wouldn't it?
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As for the "insults", I don't see any.
Indeed, throwing insults at well known open source software developers doesn't count as insult when tey don't participate here, doesn't it.
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I am not going to bother arguing with you from now on, you reply or not.
Yes, systemd does far more than an init system should. Which is quite well explained by the fact that systemd is not an init system (though its development started as one). systemd is a set of building blocks (which happens to include an init system) that can be used to create an (Linux) OS and as such should be compared to other sets of building blocks, like Busybox, Toolbox or, in a broader sense, the *BSD base systems. Though, when you compare systemd to Busybox or Toolbox don't forget to tell their respective developers how un-UNIXy it is to put all the functionality in only one binary.
Self-evidently the systemd init system is mandatory if you happen to choose the systemd binary as the init which the kernel will launch (except that it does offer sysvinit support if you have the patience to work out how to do it - I don't). If you do choose systemd as the init, logind is highly advisable; much of the rest can be disabled or masked if you want to do that. From that point of view it is one of the most flexible and modular boot systems out there.
However, having experimented with various boot systems, I have to say that I am pretty happy with slackware's modified sysvinit. It is slower at booting up than systemd, and considerably slower at closing down, but how often do you do that?
Tobi you're looking at this from the wrong perspective.
1. You knew full well Slackware users would vote mostly for Patrick, Eric, or another person who has done a true contribution to Open Source Software that did not involve creating a ton of chaos and drama within the entire Open Source Software Community as the others on that last have done, mainly Lennart who, in my opinion, needed to shut his mouth a long time ago and not just say what he wanted. Why would you think otherwise that Slackware users, or anyone for that matter, would not vote for Patrick, Eric, Richard, other others like them who have done positive contributions that had very little to no controversy?
2. Weighting the merits, good or bad, of software and other contributions will play a factor in how people see things. Cause controversy and create chaos and you end up with enemies. Do right by people, have humility, and keep up creativity and you make supporters. Tell me exactly who has Patrick or Richard made cry foul, want to grab pitchforks and torches and lynch them or their merits, and then cause entire communities to fall apart? Now tell me on that list who has caused enough drama to fuel a 777 jumbo jet?
3. If you voted Tobi, then fine, you had your vote, now drop the needless debate on something you have no control over, nor any say in, plus we don't need any more drama from anyone here, you included. You voted, spoke your peace, now let it die.
Conveniently forgetting about the X-server, which is anything but conform to the UNIX philosophy.
I'm curious, how does the Xorg server process violate the UNIX philosophy? It's just an abstraction layer between the X11 protocol and the display drivers, is it not?
It's odd I don't see this criticism enumerated in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Wind..._and_criticism .. there are quite a few people out there who feel very strongly about the UNIX Philosophy, and I would have expected it to have been raised, were it applicable.
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