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Old 01-11-2019, 02:16 AM   #1
RandomTroll
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new man-db package sets MANPAGER to most


The first time I used man after upgrading to the new man-db package it failed, complaining of most-lessness. man-db.(c)sh sets MANPAGER to most, even if you don't have it installed.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 03:22 AM   #2
Tonus
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Don't we expect here a full install ?

I believe it could be quite annoying to test what's installed or display somewhat warning in mailbox...
 
Old 01-11-2019, 03:46 AM   #3
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post
The first time I used man after upgrading to the new man-db package it failed, complaining of most-lessness. man-db.(c)sh sets MANPAGER to most, even if you don't have it installed.
One thing I hate is that a lot of slackpkg users (I do not know if this applies to you, so do not get hurt) do not read the ChangeLog's anymore, they just blindly update.
Code:
Sun Jan  6 20:03:14 UTC 2019
ap/man-db-2.8.5-i586-1.txz:  Upgraded.
  Added /etc/profile.d/man-db.{csh,sh} to pick a MANPAGER (defaults to 'most').
so this change has been announced and is easily enough to change back to less again.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:52 AM   #4
GazL
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Setting aside that it doesn't check for the presence of the specified pager itself, MANPAGER also overrides the $PAGER env var which the user might have used to set a consistent pager across all programs.

I don't like this new man-db.[c]sh, I'll be making the files non-executable here.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:58 AM   #5
Didier Spaier
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~/.profile is your friend
 
Old 01-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #6
RandomTroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
Don't we expect here a full install ?
I've never done a full install. If I don't use it, I don't install it. Is 'full install' a Slackware policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehartman View Post
One thing I hate is that a lot of slackpkg users (I do not know if this applies to you, so do not get hurt) do not read the ChangeLog's anymore, they just blindly update.
My upgrade mechanism extracts the difference between the current and next-to ChangeLog, which I read, though not always with sufficient care. Obviously I missed this one. I alerted, not blamed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
~/.profile is your friend
I know how to change it. I posted a message here to alert others.

I don't see why it's man's business to choose a pager for me. All the others work.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 11:40 AM   #7
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post
I've never done a full install. If I don't use it, I don't install it. Is 'full install' a Slackware policy?
No, it's not mandatory, and during installation it is an option presented among others.

However making a full install is the only way to be sure you won't miss a dependency when using a software shipped in Slackware.

Knowing that you should never complain that you miss a dependency of a Slackware package, unless this dependency be not shipped in Slackware.

This is the policy, which has been stated countless times.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 01-11-2019 at 11:47 AM.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 01:20 PM   #8
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post
I've never done a full install. If I don't use it, I don't install it. Is 'full install' a Slackware policy?
Yes. That's stated in the system email you get the first time you log into the root account.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:11 PM   #9
RandomTroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
making a full install is the only way to be sure you won't miss a dependency
I've rarely had a problem and fixed them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
you should never complain that you miss a dependency of a Slackware package
I wasn't complaining about a missed dependency. I was pointing out an unnecessary policy, the specification of a specific pager. I was alerting others in case they encountered this

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Yes. That's stated in the system email you get the first time you log into the root account.
That was 1997. I forgot. That's in a package, right? Which one?
 
Old 01-11-2019, 05:28 PM   #10
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post
That's in a package, right? Which one?
aaa_base

EDIT: you should have gotten a new email each time it changed.

Last edited by dugan; 01-11-2019 at 05:50 PM.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:58 PM   #11
RandomTroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
aaa_base

EDIT: you should have gotten a new email each time it changed.
How could I have failed to read it thoroughly every time? I remember my first install: I went through interminable menus asking which packages I wanted. Quoth root.new:

Quote:
'Slackware is designed around the idea that the system should be a complete installation'
Quote:
' there's a lot of good stuff out there, but there's also some that's not so good. It's always a good idea to look packages over before you install them.'
Quote:
'To get your machine on the net, you'll need to install packages from the N (network) series. If you aren't sure which ones you'll need, the easiest thing is to just install them all.'
It doesn't read like a requirement to me.
 
Old 01-12-2019, 09:01 AM   #12
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomTroll View Post
I've never done a full install. If I don't use it, I don't install it. Is 'full install' a Slackware policy?
The only person who can truly answer you question is Patrick Volkerding.

Here is my answer to a Full Install being Slackware policy.

A Definition of policy:
Quote:
A course of action, guiding principle, or procedure considered expedient, prudent, or advantageous
As you pointed out from the email. This speaks for it self.
Quote:
Slackware is designed around the idea that the system should be a complete installation
From the Slackware-HOWTO.
Quote:
If you have the disk space, we encourage you to do a full installation for
best results
. Otherwise, remember that you must install the A set. You
probably also want to install the AP, D, L, and N series, as well as the KDE,
X, XAP, and XFCE sets if you wish to run the X Window System. The Y series is
fun, but not required.
<snip>
When you start the SELECT option, you'll see a menu where you can choose
which categories of software you're interested in installing. The first
series (called the A series) contains the base filesystem structure and
binaries that are crucial for your system to boot and run properly. You
must install the A series. Make sure that at least the selection for
series A has an [X] next to it. Most of the other choices will also have
an [X] next to them, and while you can use the cursor keys and the space
bar to unselect items to save space (see the space requirements above for
details), you're better off with a complete installation if you have the
space for it.
From the install package selection section.
Quote:
Now it's time to select which general categories of software to install \
on your system. Use the spacebar to select or unselect the software you \
wish to install. You can use the up and down arrows to see all the \
possible choices. Recommended choices have been preselected. Press the \
ENTER key when you are finished.
These says with hard drive sized the way the are, not having space should be a none issue.

It's true, the only "requirement" is the A series. The point is Slackware was designed around the concept that a Full Installation is done. You have the knowledge to do otherwise great. I happen to think Full Install is the only way to go, less hassle later on.

Last edited by chrisretusn; 01-13-2019 at 05:23 AM.
 
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:45 PM   #13
philanc
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I don't think there is a full install policy. I rather see it as two guarantees and a suggestion.

Guarantee #1: PV guarantees that if you install everything, all installed programs should work ok.

Guarantee #2: The fine SBo folks guarantee that for all packages, the dependency list assumes that the package will be built and run on a full install.

Suggestion (or assumption) #1: When answering a newbie question, the nice helpful folks here at LQ check that the newbie has a full install (no way to help diagnose if you don't even know what is installed on the PC)

Coming back to the OP, the guy is obviously knowledgeable and can fix the issue himself. I think the expected answers, by someone who knows more about man-db, could be:

A) the upstream wants MANPAGER set to 'most'. We include vanilla packages as much as possible, so go and talk to upstream.

B) you're right. The package should respect MANPAGER and allow the users to use whatever they want.

C) won't fix. PV likes it that way. (after all there is a D in BDFL, and Slackware is what it is because someone makes decisions)

Please, given the expertise and knowledge level on this forum, it would be sad that "full install bigotry" (and any other sort of prejudice or dogma) prevent technical questions or suggestions from being addressed.
 
Old 01-12-2019, 02:00 PM   #14
upnort
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Quote:
man-db.(c)sh sets MANPAGER to most, even if you don't have it installed.
Whether a full install is needed, expected or required is not important. Looks like Pat anticipated different user needs. The profile.d script is written to allow users to change the environment variable.
 
  


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