Minimal install

padeen · 09-23-2009, 01:26 AM

One thing I'd really like to see is something similar to NetBSD's install where the install list is by function rather than type. For example (paraphrasing), what is the purpose of this install: minimum possible, min possible with X, developers, server, desktop, multimedia, or expert. Makes specialist installs a piece of cake. If you want to be extra selective, Expert gives a similar menu as slackware's, separated into type, such as all X apps, all text apps, and so on.

There's an opportunity there for a keen young fella [significant nod].

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinithion

Did you follow it all the way? I used the guide as well, and with a working x environment (fluxbox, firefox, pidgin, etc) i think it was just above 200MB if I remember correctly. KDE will probably need a lot more tho.

You are correct!
It's actually 155Mb!
I miscalculated because I installed a live-cd in there too so I could easily edit some .conf files and forgot to remove it once I was done

Still... it's too big.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

Hi,

You did look at the script ; create_miniiso.sh which would allow some tweaking.

I looked at it and all it does is make the .ISO with the initrd + kernels from the normal install-dvd.
It has no (zero) packages... the great thing is: whatever system is on the initrd has udev + pkgtool + network + other basic utils...
In other words: it has the very basic stuff and is a mere 13Mb (+ 6Mb from kernel)! That means a full usable and upgradeable slackware system for 20Mb (the .ISO is 31Mb but holds more than one kernel + other stuff).

My question is: what packages were used to make initrd from the install-dvd? Is it slackware based, or something else? Can we reproduce it with stock slackware packages?

Ok, ok... that's 3 questions

onebuck · 09-23-2009, 06:52 AM

Hi,

The script is to generate a 'ISO' that can be used to setup a machine. You would then in effect be required to decide what is to be installed after the boot via a local or network install.

I suggested to look at the script as a means to give a stepping stone into the generation of that 'ISO' thus allowing expansion by customizing.

I would use the 'mini-ISO' along with 'tag files' to provide the means to setup which would control your customized install.

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

Hi,

The script is to generate a 'ISO' that can be used to setup a machine. You would then in effect be required to decide what is to be installed after the boot via a local or network install.

I suggested to look at the script as a means to give a stepping stone into the generation of that 'ISO' thus allowing expansion by customizing.

I would use the 'mini-ISO' along with 'tag files' to provide the means to setup which would control your customized install.

Hello,

Either you didn't understand what I'm trying to do or I didn't explain it correctly

I understand that one can use tagfiles. In fact one does not need the mini-ISO to do that.
The mini-ISO is exactly the same as the install-dvd without the slackware tree in it.

My goal is to have a small and upgradeable system installed, not a small .ISO file to install said system. I can already install a small system without the mini-ISO, by using the stock install-dvd either with tagfiles or by manually installing the packages.

The fact of the matter is that I can't reproduce what is in the mini-ISO's system once booted (the inird) using stock slackware 13 packages.
I'm failing because either I don't know what packages to install _or_ the system in the initrd is not made with slackware packages.
I just wanted to know how can I have a very small (20Mb or so) with pkgtool + udev + network + slackpkg.

samac · 09-23-2009, 09:35 AM

Perhaps this is what you are after http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/looking-for-script-to-generate-isolinuxinitrd.img

samac

onebuck · 09-23-2009, 10:03 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slax-Dude

Hello,

Either you didn't understand what I'm trying to do or I didn't explain it correctly

I understand that one can use tagfiles. In fact one does not need the mini-ISO to do that.
The mini-ISO is exactly the same as the install-dvd without the slackware tree in it.

My goal is to have a small and upgradeable system installed, not a small .ISO file to install said system. I can already install a small system without the mini-ISO, by using the stock install-dvd either with tagfiles or by manually installing the packages.

The fact of the matter is that I can't reproduce what is in the mini-ISO's system once booted (the inird) using stock slackware 13 packages.
I'm failing because either I don't know what packages to install _or_ the system in the initrd is not made with slackware packages.
I just wanted to know how can I have a very small (20Mb or so) with pkgtool + udev + network + slackpkg.

What will be the difference in using the 'mini_install_iso' vs your (20Mb or so) ISO? The advantages of utilizing the mini_install_iso is the portability. Quick to create and use. Yes, no Slackware tree. You should read the 'README'. I guess you just want to re-invent the wheel.

gnashley · 09-23-2009, 11:08 AM

The installer initrd uses busybox to replace most of the basic programs. The rest are normal programs along with the most basic libc parts needed to run them. Any headers and static libs are left out, along with any package database, docs, man-apges, etc.

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

Hi,

What will be the difference in using the 'mini_install_iso' vs your (20Mb or so) ISO? The advantages of utilizing the mini_install_iso is the portability. Quick to create and use. Yes, no Slackware tree. You should read the 'README'. I guess you just want to re-invent the wheel.

You keep saying I want to build an .ISO... why is that?
Did I not just explained (perhaps unclearly, again) that I don't want to build a lighter install-cd or live-cd or any kind of cd for that matter.

I just want to install a very basic slackware 13 system. No more, no less.

Just to make it _perfectly_ clear: I _DON'T_ want a 20Mb .ISO that I can take with me.
I _DO_ want a 20 Mb slackware 13 system (that's 20Mb AFTER it's installed on HD) that has udev + pkgtool + slackpkg + network.

Therefore, the mini_install_iso is uterly useless for my goal. I can do the same thing (install slackware 13 system from local hard drive or from a NFS/HTTP/FTP server) without it. I can do all that with the normal slackware install_dvd!

I only mentioned the mini_install.iso because it's a 20Mb system and has all that, not because it allows me to install slackware...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnashley

The installer initrd uses busybox to replace most of the basic programs. The rest are normal programs along with the most basic libc parts needed to run them. Any headers and static libs are left out, along with any package database, docs, man-apges, etc.

Yes, now I see that it uses busybox and striped down packages and not stock slackware packages

Thanks to samac for pointing out the other thread about the creation of initrd.
I didn't learn how it's done, but did learn that it's not a slackware system

So.. it looks like it's impossible to build a basic slackware 13 system with only 20Mb that has udev + pkgtool + slackpkg + network

gnashley · 09-23-2009, 01:44 PM

No, but you can do it with about 50MB -I mean without having to delete docs and unused programs. If you really want to make it as small as possible, you have to learn everything that is needed to successfully boot the syytem. This means starting with what happens when init is run (look at /etc/inittab) and then go through the init scripts and onyl install what is needed to successfully run the rc.S, rc.modules and rc.M scripts. Add in the pkgtools, tar and gzip/xz, lilo and whatever networks stuff is needed. It's about 35 packages -maybe 50 now that things are split and udev & Co. are needed.

onebuck · 09-23-2009, 01:54 PM

HI,

Quote:

I would like something like this: http://www.slackware.com/~alien/slackboot/mini/

My goal is to make it as small as possible, but leave hardware detection and networking intact.
I intend to use it as a template for future custom slackware 13 installs, which will be expanded via slackpkg (I won't compile stuff so no need for GCC).

So, what I'm looking for is a very basic (but easily expandable) slackware system.

Your statement above meets the criteria of the mini_ISO install. But since you have more that you want to include as the basic final installation then 20MB. Then that is a barrier you won't be able to stay within.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slax-Dude

You keep saying I want to build an .ISO... why is that?
Did I not just explained (perhaps unclearly, again) that I don't want to build a lighter install-cd or live-cd or any kind of cd for that matter.

I just want to install a very basic slackware 13 system. No more, no less.

Just to make it _perfectly_ clear: I _DON'T_ want a 20Mb .ISO that I can take with me.
I _DO_ want a 20 Mb slackware 13 system (that's 20Mb AFTER it's installed on HD) that has udev + pkgtool + slackpkg + network.

Therefore, the mini_install_iso is uterly useless for my goal. I can do the same thing (install slackware 13 system from local hard drive or from a NFS/HTTP/FTP server) without it. I can do all that with the normal slackware install_dvd!

I only mentioned the mini_install.iso because it's a 20Mb system and has all that, not because it allows me to install slackware...

Yes, now I see that it uses busybox and striped down packages and not stock slackware packages

Thanks to samac for pointing out the other thread about the creation of initrd.
I didn't learn how it's done, but did learn that it's not a slackware system

So.. it looks like it's impossible to build a basic slackware 13 system with only 20Mb that has udev + pkgtool + slackpkg + network

Look, your not the OP. So don't dictate how or what can be posted. The mini_ISO is used to allow installation to be serviced from a local hard disk or a network install. I understand your install needs now.

But you must remember that this thread (that you hijacked) will be read by others therefore the usage of the mini_ISO will allow the installation without additional cds or the use of a DVD (there are lots of situations where this will be valuable). This portability by using one cd would allow implementation at sites that have limitations.

Enough said!

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

HI,

Your statement above meets the criteria of the mini_ISO install. But since you have more that you want to include as the basic final installation then 20MB. Then that is a barrier you won't be able to stay within.

I was under the impression that the mini_iso was a slackware system: my bad.
As pointed out by others, it's made with busybox and striped down packages from slackware.
I said I was sorry for not making it clear and leading you to believe that I wanted a smaller .ISO so I could install slackware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

I understand your install needs now.

Cool

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebuck

Look, your not the OP. So don't dictate how or what can be posted. The mini_ISO is used to allow installation to be serviced from a local hard disk or a network install. ---snip---

But you must remember that this thread (that you hijacked) will be read by others therefore the usage of the mini_ISO will allow the installation without additional cds or the use of a DVD (there are lots of situations where this will be valuable). This portability by using one cd would allow implementation at sites that have limitations.

First off, I didn't "hijacked" anything. My goal is the same as the OP's: a small and basic slackware system with network.
Second, I was the first one to mention the mini_ISO. I never said it was not valuable. I just said it did not fit my needs because I'm not looking for a lighter installer: I'm looking for a lighter slackware system once installed.

I posted on this thread because I find it useless to post the same question on more than one thread.
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, like you said

If the wheel already exists ("wheel" being a very small slackware 13 system with network) then please point me in the right direction.

I didn't mean to offend/annoy you. I believe it happened due to poor communication skills on my part (English is not my native language).

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnashley

No, but you can do it with about 50MB -I mean without having to delete docs and unused programs. If you really want to make it as small as possible, you have to learn everything that is needed to successfully boot the syytem. This means starting with what happens when init is run (look at /etc/inittab) and then go through the init scripts and onyl install what is needed to successfully run the rc.S, rc.modules and rc.M scripts. Add in the pkgtools, tar and gzip/xz, lilo and whatever networks stuff is needed. It's about 35 packages -maybe 50 now that things are split and udev & Co. are needed.

I don't think it is... not any more

I followed Samac's excellent guide and ended up with about 50 packages (the aforementioned 155Mb).

When I get home I'll post the package list here, but I don't think it can be reduced by much, but I'll be happy if you guys can help me scrape off a few more megabytes out of this system

Slax-Dude · 09-23-2009, 03:53 PM

Here are the packages I installed:

Code:

aaa_base-13.0-i486-2
aaa_elflibs-13.0-i486-2
aaa_terminfo-5.7-noarch-1
acl-2.2.47_1-i486-1
attr-2.4.43_1-i486-1
bash-3.1.017-i486-2
bin-11.1-i486-1
bridge-utils-1.2-i486-2
bzip2-1.0.5-i486-1
coreutils-7.4-i486-1
cxxlibs-6.0.10-i486-1
dbus-1.2.14-i486-1
dcron-2.3.3-i486-6
devs-2.3.1-noarch-25
dhcpcd-3.2.3-i486-1
dialog-1.1_20080819-i486-2
diffutils-2.8.1-i486-3
e2fsprogs-1.41.8-i486-1
etc-13.0-i486-2
file-5.03-i486-1
findutils-4.4.2-i486-1
gawk-3.1.6-i486-1
glibc-solibs-2.9-i486-3
gnupg-1.4.9-i486-1
grep-2.5.4-i486-1
gzip-1.3.12-i486-1
iputils-s20070202-i486-2
kernel-huge-smp-2.6.29.6_smp-i686-2
kernel-modules-smp-2.6.29.6_smp-i686-2
less-418-i486-2
logrotate-3.7.4-i486-1
module-init-tools-3.6-i486-2
net-tools-1.60-i486-2
network-scripts-13.0-noarch-2
openssh-5.2p1-i486-1
openssl-solibs-0.9.8k-i486-2
pkgtools-13.0-noarch-3
procps-3.2.7-i486-2
sed-4.1.5-i486-1
shadow-4.0.3-i486-18
slackpkg-2.80.2-noarch-3
sysfsutils-2.1.0-i486-1
sysklogd-1.4.1-i486-10
sysvinit-2.86-i486-6
sysvinit-functions-8.53-i486-2
sysvinit-scripts-1.2-noarch-30
tar-1.22-i486-2
udev-141-i486-3
util-linux-ng-2.14.2-i486-1
wget-1.11.4-i486-1
which-2.20-i486-1
xz-4.999.8beta-i486-1

onebuck · 09-23-2009, 05:52 PM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slax-Dude

<snip>
I didn't mean to offend/annoy you. I believe it happened due to poor communication skills on my part (English is not my native language).

You did not offend nor annoy. I just wanted to clarify the use.

Yes, it may have been poor communication on both our parts.

I hope that you're able to get things functional.

gnashley · 09-24-2009, 01:30 AM

These are non-essential:
acl-2.2.47_1-i486-1
attr-2.4.43_1-i486-1
bzip2-1.0.5-i486-1
cxxlibs-6.0.10-i486-1
dcron-2.3.3-i486-6
diffutils-2.8.1-i486-3
file-5.03-i486-1
findutils-4.4.2-i486-1
grep-2.5.4-i486-1
less-418-i486-2
logrotate-3.7.4-i486-1
procps-3.2.7-i486-2
sed-4.1.5-i486-1
sysfsutils-2.1.0-i486-1

I think you'll find that the majority of the installation is now in the kernel-modules package. If you are using the huge kernel, most of the modules are non-essential.