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The problem is that SBo and -current are pretty much incompatible now, and this is very serious damage when package contributers cannot (or don't want to) update their scripts.
Of course they are incompatable ... slackbuilds.org provides Slackbuilds for "stable" releases. e.g. 14.0 04 14.2, ... not for current which is in development, constantly changing and may on any given day be unstable in some way. Every so often I upgrade to the "current" at that time .... and the I use git to update my slackbuilds repository for slackware-current and use those slackbuilds to build or re-build what I need.
As far as those "package contributors" you are talking about ... many of them have changed rebuilt or patched their slackbuilds for current but those slackbuilds are in "current branch" at github" not at slackbuilds.org. And how could you possibly know or claim that contributors you most likely have no personal contact with "cannot (or don't want to) update their scripts"? Have you considered that there may be very good reasons why a slackbuild is no longer maintained. e.g. redundancy, upstream no longer maintained, etc.
Last edited by justwantin; 07-27-2020 at 10:19 PM.
Reason: tyop
For me rolling means relatively short and constant period of time to appear new release. Slackware -current is development branch. Daily updates, sometime mass updates.
Of course they are incompatable ... slackbuilds.org provides Slackbuilds for "stable" releases. e.g. 14.0 04 14.2, ... not for current which is in development, constantly changing and may on any given day be unstable in some way. Every so often I upgrade to the "current" at that time .... and the I use git to update my slackbuilds repository for slackware-current and use those slackbuilds to build or re-build what I need.
As far as those "package contributors" you are talking about ... many of them have changed rebuilt or patched their slackbuilds for current but those slackbuilds are in "current branch" at github" not at slackbuilds.org. And how could you possibly know or claim that contributors you most likely have no personal contact with "cannot (or don't want to) update their scripts"? Have you considered that there may be very good reasons why a slackbuild is no longer maintained. e.g. redundancy, upstream no longer maintained, etc.
Ponce's repository in not SBo -current, and he told about that in another thread.
For me rolling means relatively short and constant period of time to appear new release. Slackware -current is development branch. Daily updates, sometime mass updates.
Slackware has much less packages that other distros, so its development branch ės very close to rolling release.
The latest happenings in Slackware development can be seen by looking at the ChangeLogs in the various distribution trees. For your bleeding edge enjoyment, we are providing the ChangeLogs for the -current development tree as well as the latest stable release on the web site. The latest ChangeLogs can always be found on ftp://ftp.slackware.com We are updating this page every hour, so they will remain fairly current. But the truly bleeding edge will want to leave an ftp session open to ftp://ftp.slackware.com and less the ChangeLog every 5 minutes.
I really do no think that Slackware's -current development cycle would fit the definition for a rolling release;
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_release Rolling release, rolling update, or continuous delivery, in software development, is the concept of frequently delivering updates to applications.[1][2][3] This is in contrast to a standard or point release development model which uses software versions that must be reinstalled over the previous version. An example of this difference would be the multiple versions of Ubuntu Linux versus the single, constantly updated version of Arch Linux.
Rolling release development models are one of many types of software release life cycles. Although a rolling release model can be used in the development of any piece or collection of software, it is often seen in use by Linux distributions, notable examples being for instance Arch Linux, Gentoo Linux, openSUSE Tumbleweed, GhostBSD, PCLinuxOS, Solus (operating system), SparkyLinux and Void Linux.
A rolling release is typically implemented using small and frequent updates. However, simply having updates does not automatically mean that a piece of software is using a rolling release cycle; for this, the philosophy of developers must be to work with one code branch, versus discrete versions. When the rolling release is employed as the development model, software updates are typically delivered to users by a package manager on the user's personal computer, accessing through the internet a remote software repository (often via a download mirror) stored on an internet file server.
If you look at the ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/slackware/s.../ChangeLog.txt it will provide information as to how PV is working on Slackware64 -current development. No need for individuals to update packages unless they use the tools to do such. You can use AlienBob's mirror-slackware-current.sh script to download a tree or create an ISO for a CD/DVD/USB by configuring the mirror-slackware-current.conf file you create by passing the 'w' file to the script. This file is well documented so a user can configure to suit their needs.
One of the frequent criticisms of Slackware is the lack of official packages available. While the official package set provides a good, stable, and flexible operating system (and is quite adequate for many individuals), the fact remains that many users want/need quite a few additional applications in order for it to meet their needs. There are a few well-known third party package repositories, but many users justifiably do not want to install untrusted packages on their systems. For those users, the traditional solution has been to download the source code for desired applications and compile them manually. This works, but introduces another set of problems associated with managing those applications; version updates and such require more of the admin's time than precompiled packages, and lack of notes will often mean that the admin forgot which configure flags were used earlier (as well as any other special issues encountered).
In our opinion, the best solution to this problem is for the admin to automate the compile process using a SlackBuild script. Patrick Volkerding, the maintainer of Slackware, uses SlackBuild scripts to compile the official packages, so it makes sense for us to use the same idea for extra applications we want to add.
Our goal is to have the largest collection of SlackBuild scripts available while still ensuring that they are of the highest quality - we test every submission prior to inclusion in the repository. We do not now nor will we ever provide precompiled packages for any of the applications for which we have SlackBuild scripts - instead, we want the system administrator (that's you) to be responsible for building the packages.
So individuals may find other packages that may fit needs.
Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy Slackware Gnu/Linux!
I've made the mistake of attempting to engage a certain person in rational discourse. My attempt was based on the faulty assumption that the person would consider my point of view and logically respond. He/she does not. The person takes delight in provoking, belittling, and generally pissing us off. How do you combat a fire? You take away the oxygen supply. I suggest that we do not engage this person at all. Eventually the moderation team will get tired of its rubbish.
Back on topic ladies and gentlemen!
I think we're closer to a beta. I'm happy to see that Firefox is now updated. I'm looking forward to 15.0.
I do agree with your statement above hitest. But some statements do require a response. This the Slackware forum and some new or uninformed members may take some untrue statements/opinions as valid. Since this forum is for Slackware related discussions and this thread was created to inform. We must set the record straight so that others may find the truth for themselves from related information.
Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy Slackware Gnu/Linux!
Last edited by onebuck; 07-28-2020 at 09:59 AM.
Reason: typo
But some statements do require a response. This the Slackware forum and some new or uninformed members may take some untrue statements/opinions as valid. Since this forum is for Slackware related discussions and this thread was created to inform. We must set the record straight so that others may find the truth for themselves from related information.
As you wish. However, I doubt that you will ever get an appropriate response/acknowledgement from that individual. It is a waste of time in my opinion.
I completely agree that it is imperative that we provide accurate, truthful information for the new Slackware user here at LQ.
Back on topic.
I am excited by the prospect of KDE5 and XFCE 4.14 arriving in the -current branch.
hitest it may be true that we will never get an appropriate response but I think that is exactly the point. It is important to actually demonstrate how untenable such trolling is and that it is absolutely trolling strictly to promote controversy where little or none exists. Some things like "tilting at windmills" are obviously no or even counter productive. Other practical issues are often not so obvious and must be countered to demonstrate they are false or at best entirely subjective.
hitest it may be true that we will never get an appropriate response but I think that is exactly the point. It is important to actually demonstrate how untenable such trolling is and that it is absolutely trolling strictly to promote controversy where little or none exists. Some things like "tilting at windmills" are obviously no or even counter productive. Other practical issues are often not so obvious and must be countered to demonstrate they are false or at best entirely subjective.
Sounds good. I support you and onebuck in attempting to counter his/her counter productive posting.
Back on topic.
I am excited that we will be upgrading to 15.0.
PV has stated for Slackware -current; I really do no think that Slackware's -current development cycle would fit the definition for a rolling release; If you look at the ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/slackware/s.../ChangeLog.txt it will provide information as to how PV is working on Slackware64 -current development. No need for individuals to update packages unless they use the tools to do such. You can use AlienBob's mirror-slackware-current.sh script to download a tree or create an ISO for a CD/DVD/USB by configuring the mirror-slackware-current.conf file you create by passing the 'w' file to the script. This file is well documented so a user can configure to suit their needs.
BTW, SBo mission as stated;So individuals may find other packages that may fit needs.
Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy Slackware Gnu/Linux!
The difference between development and rolling is very vague even from definition.
Most of the people who switched to -current want to consider it as rolling release. Don't break their illusions.
How do you combat a fire? You take away the oxygen supply. I suggest that we do not engage this person at all.
That's called Not feeding the troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck
I do agree with your statement above hitest. But some statements do require a response. This the Slackware forum and some new or uninformed members may take some untrue statements/opinions as valid. Since this forum is for Slackware related discussions and this thread was created to inform. We must set the record straight so that others may find the truth [...]
Just out of interest re SBo on -current, the situation is outlined here. Personally I have 164 SBo builds installed on my new -current* machine (251 on the laptop), and they're going nicely. But it's a "best effort" type thing, same as SBo. If it's imperative that you have the absolute latest of everything, Slackware in general is not going to suit (although occasionally you find a particular build from SBo is more up to date than some mainstream distro repos). Some software is bumped to build on -current (e.g., unison), other times held back because of 14.2 libraries (e.g., zathura). So it's an interesting mix.
*Of course I'd prefer to run stable, but that's tough considering Slackware is dead. Let us pray for a miracle
The difference between development and rolling is very vague even from definition.
It's really not that vague. Are they working towards an intended release? If the answer is yes, then they are not a rolling release.
It has been stated several times by Pat that we are working towards a release. By the very definition, that means Slackware is not a rolling release. The development of that release could take 20 years, but if it is working towards an eventual release, then it is not a rolling release.
If Pat announces there will no longer be any future releases of Slackware and the only updates will happen in -current, then, and only then, can it be officially called a rolling release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.G.O.R
Most of the people who switched to -current want to consider it as rolling release. Don't break their illusions.
This is a development version of Slackware that is mostly usable and some feel is more stable than other distros who are using a rolling release model. If people want to call it a rolling release, they can, but they'd be wrong.
the scripts that you can find on the official SlackBuilds.org (SBo from now on) repository are available for the latest Slackware stable so, in many cases, they won't build on current as they are provided.
if you need a repository that has patches to build them on current, please use this project (not supported or endorsed by SBo)
Even those slackbuilds mightn't be up to date and fail as current has "rolled on" but they are as "current" as you will find anywhere. Usually I have found that if its not in Ponce's repo yet, the SBO stable slackbuild doesn't need to be upgraded yet.
Anyway, my take on Linux, and specfically Slackware, is that one should want deal with it or want to contribute to dealing with it or want to help others deal with it or want to learn how to deal with it. Maybe tic all of the above.
Last edited by justwantin; 07-28-2020 at 06:57 PM.
Reason: tyop
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