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Old 08-15-2019, 01:48 PM   #241
Lysander666
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Ah at last, this feels like a proper systemd thread.

Seriously guys, please stop the fighting. We have enough troubles in our daily lives off the boards to squabble on them. I personally come here to get away from that kind of stuff, systemd thread or not.
 
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:17 PM   #242
ttk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
You are kind to give details about this "hard-coded" behavior of systemd?
A quick grep of my chat logs brings up a few examples. I'll try to remember to aggregate more examples to this file as I find them, but I'm not spending any more time on this for now:

http://ciar.org/h/systemd_hard_coded_flaws.txt
 
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #243
m.a.l.'s pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Seriously guys, please stop the fighting. We have enough troubles in our daily lives off the boards to squabble on them. I personally come here to get away from that kind of stuff, systemd thread or not.
I agree. This is nuts. Seems to me that nothing positive ever results from these systemd threads. Some are ok with systemd, some are not, and I'm guilty of wasting my time looking through a (now) 17-page thread that solves nothing.
 
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:11 PM   #244
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Ah at last, this feels like a proper systemd thread.
Yup. SNAFU. This is why I will remain relatively neutral with my init comments in this thread. My feeling is that the maintainer will make the call on init issues. Mr. Volkerding has an exceptional record on *getting it right* with Slackware; I trust him.
 
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:33 PM   #245
ChuangTzu
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Here, perhaps this will throw some cold water on the fire....at least I think this bucket is water..sniff sniff, damn petrol....

Seriously though, this is a handy guide of systemd commands compared to sysv... No I did not drink any Kool-Aid, I just like to understand things and plus Sun Tzu said keep your friends close and your enemies closer....
https://i.redd.it/bhzglvv2q1g31.jpg
https://linoxide.com/linux-command/l...temd-commands/

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 08-15-2019 at 03:35 PM.
 
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:24 PM   #246
jakedp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Well, this is rather off the main point of the thread, but if you read the Inferno, you will see that hell is presented as a funnel-shaped volume under the surface of the earth with its point at the earth's centre. Each circle is smaller and more crowded than the one above. At the bottom of the funnel, Lucifer lies entombed in a block of ice. Dante and Virgil climb down to his waist and then up his legs towards Mount Purgatory on the other side of the earth.

Dante asks why they are now going upwards when they haven't turned around, and Virgil explains that Lucifer's waist corresponds to the centre of the earth and that any direction away from this will be "up".

Of course Dante and his contemporaries believed that the spherical earth was motionless at the centre of the universe and Copernicus believed it went around the sun, but that is a different issue altogether

<facepalm>


The spheres are Celestial Spheres filled with the Aether, not a globe head fantasy, lol. Nvm...

Look up the definition of Planar. It is not in the Talmud, it is a scientific term from Euclid' s Geometry.

Last edited by jakedp; 08-15-2019 at 05:26 PM.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:04 AM   #247
jsbjsb001
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jakedp, while you're lucky I've even giving your post #229 any further response, and again, I don't intend on continuing with this discussion given the way the thread is going...

A few things:

1. I think I made it clear that I'm neither a "fan" nor a "hater" of systemd - it's an init system, my system works.

2. I make up my own mind based on the experiences I have with the software concerned, and I will not be "just believing" what others say (for or against). I certainly will not be confusing opinions with facts.

3. My point about the "UNIX way" was this: UNIX was an advanced system and quite a revolutionary system for it's time. There are no more "pure UNIX's" left in the world - it's either Linux or one of the BSD's. The BSD's are far closer to pure UNIX than Linux has ever been. systemd is very much Linux software, and is not used in the BSD's, and likely never will be. There also seems to be different ideas about what the "UNIX way" means to different people. One person might say systemd is counter to the "UNIX way", and others (like systemd's own developers) clearly have different ideas - I'm not going to debate with you which "version" of that is correct and which isn't BTW. UNIX itself is dead, and has been for many years, if not decades now. So again, I've not heard any clear (or good) reason as to why, and given the above, Linux distro's are obligated to follow whatever you wish to describe as the "UNIX way". And again, my point of view is that Linux is about choice, indeed "free software" is about choice. It's your choice not to like systemd, fair enough, each to their own, fine. It's my choice not to be a fan anymore than a hater of it.

I've been using Linux since before systemd even existed. I've never had any problems with any init system I've ever used, be that SYSVINIT, systemd, or whatever else. I can say that based on my own personal experience, which isn't necessarily other people's personal experiences. Again, it goes back to something we call "choice", and you've clearly made yours. I'm not going to fly to Canada and even try and convert you to my way of thinking, let alone force you to agree with my choice - that's counter to believing in choice. So if you wish to dislike systemd and not use it, then that's fine - it's no skin off my nose either way.

Linux or indeed Slackware are not going to die because of systemd, as long as people want to use them, then the respective developers are still going to cater for those people that wish to use them. I'd be far more concerned about Microsoft getting involved with Linux on that front, than I would be about systemd.

I'd also suggest that if people find your "directness" rude, then perhaps you should try and make your points in a more respectful manner - that doesn't mean you have to agree with them either. As there is actually a difference between being "direct" and being "rude" - it's called "playing the ball, not the man". And most people in this thread, even those opposed to systemd have made some very good points, and in a very respectful, and intelligent manner too - so I was referring to your comments, not anyone else's comments. And no, I've got no interest in debating that with you either.

That's all I have to say about this subject, happy debating.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:06 AM   #248
enorbet
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Just FTR folks... I marked this thread "Solved" because it appears for quite a few even a decade is not enough to drop the fire and grab the poker <sigh>.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:38 AM   #249
rkelsen
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Is 2019 Still Too Soon For Intelligent Assessment of SystemD?

Well, I don't know what you expected. The same old tired arguments from both sides are always presented in these threads.

The only way to find out if it can work for you is to try it. Download a distro that comes with it and install it in a VM.

Good luck.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 05:04 AM   #250
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
There are no more "pure UNIX's" left in the world
Yes, there are, like AIX, Solaris/openSolaris, HP-UX and so.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:36 AM   #251
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehartman View Post
Yes, there are, like AIX, Solaris/openSolaris, HP-UX and so.
By "pure UNIX" I meant the original AT&T versions from Bell Labs - good luck finding a system still running them. But yes, the systems you mention would certainly be much closer to the original versions from Bell Labs than Linux would be, yes.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:00 AM   #252
Didier Spaier
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There' s an official list of UNIX Certified Products.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:05 AM   #253
hazel
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I just looked and found two MacOS versions there. That surprised me. I knew that Mac OSX is based on BSD but I didn't know they had full UNIX compliance.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:45 AM   #254
khronosschoty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I just looked and found two MacOS versions there. That surprised me. I knew that Mac OSX is based on BSD but I didn't know they had full UNIX compliance.
In a lot of ways OS X (MacOS) is a nice OS; it has problems for sure -- its main ones (in my opinion) are: its not open enough, it appears from my limited perspective to be intentionally designed so that some of what is open is practically unusable anywhere beyond Apples own defined wall. All that said, some of what they have open has been useful to many of us. I'm not endorsing them by any means; I think the negatives, negate the positives; despite this, however, I acknowledge some of the things it does right.

Last edited by khronosschoty; 08-16-2019 at 10:48 AM.
 
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:20 AM   #255
bifferos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khronosschoty View Post
(MacOS) is a nice OS; it has problems for sure
- Lack of integrated X support.
- Lack of single, decent package manager that works (Brew is *not* that)
- Stupid version of LibreSSL, without any of the optimisations compiled in, that doesn't do everything OpenSSL does.
- Ancient version of Python, even on Mojave.
- No properly supported TAP device.
- Weird problems with otherwise perfectly useful programs, e.g. socat "Operation not supported on socket" from certain argument combos
- Tar files riddled with extra MacOS related nonsense unless you use obscure options to avoid it.
- Different programs/systems using different ways to resolve DNS addresses.

To name but a few.
 
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