Why we just lost battle with covid?

If you don't have children can you still take care of yourself?



I think I hear a tree in the woods, I need to go!

Very interesting thread. Mixture of fact, speculation, insults and fearmongering. Typical LQ.

I am really sorry for users like v00d00101 who have experienced negative side effects from the vaccine. But some perspective has to be given here. The large majority of people who get the vaccine will not get side effects, or very minor ones.

I had my Pfizer jab at the beginning of last week. No side effects apart from a slightly sore arm that lasted about 24 hours. When I was there, St Thomas's Hospital in London, there was a marquee vaccination centre and they farmed the vaccinees in and out. It wasn't rushed. It took 30 mins per person, which included 15 minutes post-vaccination monitoring. It was very well organised indeed. A lot of people have been vaccinated here already, millions. I know several colleagues who have had the Pfizer jab with no side effects. A couple of Oxfords too, including one who received it last June as part of the trials - who interesting enough recently got COVID but it didn't hit him hard [maybe as a result of the vaccine, who knows], he said the worst thing was the fatigue. And to those who say, "people have died as a result of the vaccine", yes, this happens with any vaccine, unfortunately. It mostly happens because people are allergic to one or more of the ingredients - however, before you get your Pfizer jab they tell you what's in it so you can identify anything you're allergic to. But what of those ingredients you don't know you're allergic to? If you're a few decades in, you're more than likely to have a good idea of what you're allergic to or not.

I was given a handout before the jab [which I still have] telling me what was in it, and what side effects I could possibly expect.

More than 1 in 10 people can expect soreness, headaches, chills or fever.
Up to 1 in 10 people can expect swelling or nausea.
Up to 1 in 100 people will feel unwell or get enlarged lymph nodes.
Severe allergic reactions cannot be estimated from the available data.

Side effects can be reported here:

https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

So while some people will have side effects, some very bad, it is expected as a result of the vaccine. But still, the quantity of people it will affect badly, in ratio, is very small indeed.

One has to make a choice - take a vaccine developed by highly intelligent people who know more than you ever will about virology, and weather any potential side effects [which are very likely to be minor, if anything] or take your chance with COVID, which affects everyone differently, and many, many people deleteriously of all ages. It's a pandemic, which means that they expect everyone to get it at some stage. So vaccine or COVID? For most it will not be a difficult decision.

Nice to see you back, Lysander. I was wondering what had happened to you.

The handout I got didn't say what was actually inside the vaccine, but I was asked if I had ever had any severe allergies, to which I answered no. As you say, people my age know what we are and are not allergic to, and in any case, most of us have never had the kind of life-threatening allergies that seem to be so common nowadays. Probably that's because we came into contact with lots of germs in our early years and our immune systems learned to cope without throwing hissy fits. At my school there was just one girl who had asthma and everyone found that really strange. No one had even heard of anaphylactic shock.

When they get round to vaccinating the shielded people, who are often much younger than us, they'll have to be more careful.

Originally Posted by hazel Nice to see you back, Lysander. I was wondering what had happened to you. The handout I got didn't say what was actually inside the vaccine, but I was asked if I had ever had any severe allergies, to which I answered no. As you say, people my age know what we are and are not allergic to, and in any case, most of us have never had the kind of life-threatening allergies that seem to be so common nowadays. Probably that's because we came into contact with lots of germs in our early years and our immune systems learned to cope without throwing hissy fits. At my school there was just one girl who had asthma and everyone found that really strange. No one had even heard of anaphylactic shock. When they get round to vaccinating the shielded people, who are often much younger than us, they'll have to be more careful.

The list of ingredients is no big secret [unlike, say, Big Mac special sauce], they're actually on the Wikipedia page and are correct:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer...ne#Composition

The page also says;

people who have a history of "significant" allergic reaction should not receive the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID‑19 vaccine

It's actually a relatively good article. However, it does say 86% effectiveness 10 days after dose 1. I don't know how accurate that is. At work we tend to think it's more around 50%, but that's still better than nothing. The figures are still being thrashed out.

Here's a couple of hopeful quotes from the Spectator

1) An Israeli healthcare provider has seen a 60% drop in Covid-19 hospitalisations among vaccinated over-sixties by 23 days after they are given their first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. 2) Only 0.015% of a group of vaccinated Israelis caught Covid-19 in the week after receiving a second dose of the Pfizer vaccine, compared with 0.65% of the general population. The crude study suggests that the vaccine meets the 95% effectiveness rate found in clinical trials.

I found this https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/w...cine-data.html . At the beginning all these statistical data and mention of something I don't understand quite well - quite of agreement between Pfizer and Israel. But at the end of article you read the situation is as everywhere. About side effects: say 1 : 1000 person has some serious side effects. In Poland this would give say 38 000 people - which is the same number as total number of deaths. We just don't want to have hospitals full of people suffering due to virus or due to post-vaccination complications. Of course it is not easy to find some neighbor suffering from complications - the same is true for people who died. For me average chance is 32/38 000 ~ 0.001. So our personal experience is misleading. We need vaccination - this is for sure - but also we need to know the risk of this. This is fair.

Originally Posted by igadoter About side effects: say 1 : 1000 person has some serious side effects. In Poland this would give say 38 000 people - which is the same number as total number of deaths. We just don't want to have hospitals full of people suffering due to virus or due to post-vaccination complications. Of course it is not easy to find some neighbor suffering from complications - the same is true for people who died. For me average chance is 32/38 000 ~ 0.001. So our personal experience is misleading. We need vaccination - this is for sure - but also we need to know the risk of this. This is fair.

Yes, to be fair you're making up numbers about the side effects rather than looking at published data. It also depends on what you mean by "serious" side affect, but if you take that as anaphylactic shock, then the figure is much lower than 1:1000 - much much lower.

It won't be easy to find those 32 000 among 38 millions. In the article above I posted link it was mentioned statistics for 1:100 person. Not much is known as I understand whats happening for 1:1000 person. Trial for vaccine was about 44 000 cases - which gives possible 44 persons with unusual reactions. So it is very difficult to determine whether or not these reactions are connected to vaccine. So for some reliable data we need to wait - but it is of utmost importance to inform about any unusual symptoms in some period after vaccination. Not only day after.

Edit: At this point no one knows what can be side effect. Some are already determined.

just like in the US not all the republicans are racists

And not all democrats are communist I guess. Just enough of them to try and destroy a nation.

Is this where I should complain about hate speech and fake info? Wow!

Originally Posted by ondoho ^ There's a few more dogwhistle terms I haven't heard in a while... Anyhow... This. Again and again.

And just what is incorrect in the way they do it with the world, they are such kind loving people they go out of their way to be so friendly. They give of themselves to all they meet and have rays of sunshine with all they do. In case you apologists have not noticed with the original SARS almost a couple of decades ago they did exactly the same and lied all the way through it, we got lucky it did not spread like it has now. Well you get to see what happens now when idiots will not stay in place and not move around. All the Chinese have done this time is make even more aggressive moves on the world, you should see the media over there and how they take and gloat about how stupid we are in the west and how theirs is the better way of doing it.

What clowns there are to think that this has changed anything for them and the way they are doing it. They doubled down on the concentration camps (oops apologists, re-education camps according to their kind loving government) they have all the Muslims in, the south china seas and the poor people of Tawain in their sights it continues unabated 24/7 365 days a year of aggressive moves toward them. The Indians they are at their borders in increasing numbers with ever more incursions, the eradication of the Tibetan people goes on and on. And do not forget their little lap dogs in North Korea who they unleash on the world from time to time with the nuclear weapons they helped them get.

So lets get together and have a good round of kumbaya with our great friends from China.

Edit: so have at it and keep up their defence they are so hard done by in the world. Oh and if you have actual case to make instead of throwing accusations provide some facts to back up your BS. It is easy to make them and not say anything of substance yourself to back it up.

Edit2: And how could I forget the wonderful people of Hong Kong, go give them a few questions on what they think of their brothers in the Peoples Republic, they get to go to jail for wanting to vote in an election, like was promised to them in an international agreement.

I'm blaming the last U.S. Administration for polarizing the Excited States. Now will you guys please stop attacking each other before this thread is closed? This is a thread about COVID. I shouldn't have to trawl through thinly veiled abuse and terms like 'racist' or 'communist' just to get people's latest thoughts and information on Covid. Some of the posts here are miles OT.

On Covid:
My son is Covid skeptic. He's not thinking covid doesn't exist. He thinks it's overplayed. A large number of reputed doctors argue this likewise. He's not on his own. I don't agree with him, but I have to admit he has a valid viewpoint. Covid deaths are outnumbered by: Annual Deaths from suicide; Annual deaths from 'flu, and many other causes. Covid is way down the list. Of the Covid deaths in the elderly, he simply asks 'Were they healthy people who were taken down by Covid, or were they people near death anyhow? In some cases, people with advanced diagnoses (e.g. incurable cancer) died with Covid. The cause of death isn't investigated, if they test positive, it's put down as a Covid death. And now there's death by vaccination against Covid.

Further, we have extended lockdowns which are playing havoc with our economies for decades to come when the deaths are so low. Compared with the plagues of previous centuries, even the Spanish flu, the death toll is trivial. I argue that the death toll might be 5 times the current figure without lockdowns, and he agrees - 5 or even 10 times. We have 3156 deaths to date, so perhaps 30,000 = 0.6% of our population.