Date format in Forums

Please, please, please!!!

There is no such thing as "European date format"!

There is though a STANDARD way of writing/displaying date, and that is the ISO date format (dont remember the ISO number now). Which IS in the format YYYY-MM-DD, and nothing else.

So PLEASE make that an option in Forum settings. Now I have to use a confusing "European date format, extended", which STILL isn't a European format. I can't use the "European" or "US" formats, becouse I can't even figure out which number is the year or month even!

I know there is no such beast as "European date", becouse I live in Sweden, an European country, and we DON'T use the so called "European date", we DO use ISO standard way of displaying date (which also happens to be the US and English standard way of displaying dates, but you still use the old, nonstandard way of expressing dates).

Format in which the date is presented on. US Format (e.g., 04-25-98) Expanded US Format (e.g., Apr 25th, 1998) European Format (e.g., 25-04-98) Expanded European Format (e.g., 25th Apr 1998)

It does explain what the different formats mean - because not everyone knows what an ISO format date is. I believe that this is a vBulletin default rather than something Jeremy has coded.

Originally Posted by Jaxån I can't use the "European" or "US" formats, becouse I can't even figure out which number is the year or month even!

I'm not trying to poke at your intelligence but isn't it pretty obvious with the use of common sense that anyone should be able to figure out the format by clearly looking at it if you know how many months there are in a year, how many days are in each month and what year it currently is?

Originally Posted by trickykid I'm not trying to poke at your intelligence but isn't it pretty obvious with the use of common sense that anyone should be able to figure out the format by clearly looking at it if you know how many months there are in a year, how many days are in each month and what year it currently is?

No, it isn't pretty obvious in pretty many dates...

So please tell me what date this is 07-08-08. No, I won't tell you if it is in US or UK format (as there is no European date format, other then EU use of the ISO 8601:1988). Becouse that is what the rest of the world feels like when they see those two incompatible (braindead?) formats when used to display a date.

Compare that to ISO international standard format for dates, 2008-07-08. It's pretty clear, even for US and UK citizens, what part is the year. And then it is only to count down (Year, month, day). You do not need to remember if the dates starts with the two (don't years have four digits?) last digits in the year, or ends with the same. And which order are days and month? Impossible to know just by looking at the digits when days are one of the first 12 days in the month. End even harder if both month and day is around the two last digits in the year...

And do not make me go to the configuration page in this forum and look up how the US or UK dates looks like (Hmm. Did I set date format to US or GB format this time? And which is which?). I realy don't want to have an extra window open just to see how the date is format.

So
1) PLEASE remove that statment about UK format is an European date format. If there is one, it is the ISO standard date format.
2) PLEASE add ISO date format, as it is the International format for writing dates. And as the standard it should be used, and possible the default. Isn't much of the arguments about using Open Source that it follows international standards?

Originally Posted by XavierP It does explain what the different formats mean - because not everyone knows what an ISO format date is. I believe that this is a vBulletin default rather than something Jeremy has coded.

Non of those formats is ISO format. As I stated in my post, ISO date format is YYYY-MM-DD and not YY-DD-MM, MM-DD-YY, MM-YY-DD or whatever strange format you use in UK and US. The ISO format looks like it does becouse it is the logical way of writing the date, and it will not by mistake be interpreted as any other format.

See the other post by me with links about the international standard format for writing dates, ISO 8601:1988.

So I need to memorize another ISO number? Isn't the ISO form designed for fields in a computer so that they sort alphabetically. I agree however that 01-02-2008 is ambiguous, but if you have it set one way, then you don't have to figure it out every time. If you tell someone the date, do you put the year first? I think that "European" form is due to the way Europeans express or write the date, as in 5 March, 1953.

Originally Posted by Jaxån No, it isn't pretty obvious in pretty many dates... So please tell me what date this is 07-08-08.

Well I can understand that one but you said many many dates, you clearly gave one example. And no you don't need to name all the different variations of the same example with just a different month or day that's under the sum of 12.

But what XavierP is trying to explain is the date formats are probably like they are because that's how vBulletin codes and programmed them, probably because it's based out of the U.S..

But this site is based out of the U.S. so if in doubt, expect it to be in a US type format by default. Every country and site is different with different standards. You wouldn't come to the U.S. and demand we speak your native language or complain if we don't understand if you don't speak english now would you?

Visit another country, either learn their standards or language or don't visit them I say. It really can't be that hard for you to learn another standard. It's not like we're asking you to learn a totally new language now are we?

That's my two cents I guess.

Originally Posted by jschiwal So I need to memorize another ISO number? Isn't the ISO form designed for fields in a computer so that they sort alphabetically. I agree however that 01-02-2008 is ambiguous, but if you have it set one way, then you don't have to figure it out every time. If you tell someone the date, do you put the year first? I think that "European" form is due to the way Europeans express or write the date, as in 5 March, 1953.

Firstly. Do you need to remember ISO number for ODF (ISO/IEC 26300 by the way ) when you use Open Office? Don't think so. So you only need to remember how the format looks like when you read a ISO date.

And please. I AM an European, and I NEVER use the UK (or the US) format. We ALLWAYS use the ISO standard here where I live (in Europe). We use the so called "European extended standard" in text (but we of course doesn't use english named for month, as most other European countries).

So my argument here is that it isn't one "European" standard of writing dates. As most countries in Europe
1) don't use DD-MM-YY format. They use ISO format for numeric dates
2) use our languages names for months and not the english ones (as I use "mars" and not "march").

And still, the ISO standard format IS the standard. Not the UK nor the US format. I do not say that you should remove the UK or US formats, I just say that the international standard way of writing dates (have you read any of the links???) should be added. And possible as the default.

As I wrote. Isn't one argument for using Open source software that it follows international standards? So why don't this site, which is about Open source as I understand it, use ISO 8601:1988 as one possible date format?

No, I don't care that US uses inch etc instead of the by US standardisation organisation prefered metric units. But I do care that I can't use proper date format here, as we use it in Europe. And that some people try to convince me that they do know better than me what is used here in Europe. No, UK is not all Europe. They still use gallon instead of liters, as ALL the rest of Europe uses...

Originally Posted by Jaxån As I wrote. Isn't one argument for using Open source software that it follows international standards? So why don't this site, which is about Open source as I understand it, use ISO 8601:1988 as one possible date format?

To my knowledge, vBulletin is not open source. The site is about Linux and Open Source though.

No, I don't care that US uses inch etc instead of the by US standardisation organisation prefered metric units. But I do care that I can't use proper date format here, as we use it in Europe. And that some people try to convince me that they do know better than me what is used here in Europe. No, UK is not all Europe. They still use gallon instead of liters, as ALL the rest of Europe uses...

Let's stay on topic and not start a war on who's right and wrong when it comes to standards used.

In the U.S. most use the standards given and presented to them. If I came to Sweden or visited a Swedish site, I'd probably either learn the language if I had to, learn the terminology used and or date format if I wanted to continue using the site, etc. It's really that easy, you simply can't please everyone in the world.

And from what I recall, I believe this date format has been brought up before and Jeremy suggested they add it as a feature request. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...format-538302/

Sadly I don't see the feature request anywhere.

Originally Posted by trickykid Well I can understand that one but you said many many dates, you clearly gave one example. And no you don't need to name all the different variations of the same example with just a different month or day that's under the sum of 12.

No, I wont, becouse if one uses some math thinking, one see that there IS a lot of combinations where you can't figure out if there is DD-MM och MM-DD just by looking at the date. And that problem will return each and every year with the US and UK formats. ISO date format was designed to eliminat this problem. Not just for sorting dates.

But what XavierP is trying to explain is the date formats are probably like they are because that's how vBulletin codes and programmed them, probably because it's based out of the U.S..

You are wrong. vBulletin is quite capable of showing ISO date format. As there is an option for that in many other vBulletin boards.

But this site is based out of the U.S. so if in doubt, expect it to be in a US type format by default. Every country and site is different with different standards. You wouldn't come to the U.S. and demand we speak your native language or complain if we don't understand if you don't speak english now would you?

I have not seen in any place that this site should be exlusive US site. I have seen seen profs on that the site owner is inviting sitizens from other countries to come and ask and answers questions.

So with your arguments, as I understands it, it is ok for US citizens to claim that some strange format is/should be used by Europe citizens, when it actually is only used in one small country here?

And that this problem is easily fixed in the code? PHP has already support for ISO date format. It is just a matter of corection something that is wrong in this installation, a bug actually.

Visit another country, either learn their standards or language or don't visit them I say. It really can't be that hard for you to learn another standard. It's not like we're asking you to learn a totally new language now are we? That's my two cents I guess.

I think I have learned "your" language so I can make myself understod here. At least it has worked quite well before. So now it is your turn, or is it to hard for you: "Men jag kan ju alltid ta det på svenska, så får vi se om du förstår. Eftersom jag sitter i sverige och skriver detta, så besöker du mig. Så enligt ditt argument så skall du lära dig svenska, eftersom jag är i sverige nu. Eller om det räcker med datumformatet som vi använder i sverige. Jag har inte riktigt förstått vad du menar..."

Secondly, US and UK dates is a BIG hassel to learn. I was not born learning to handle that strange creature. I don't care if you continue to use it. But I don't want, and shouldn't need to. There is software that should take care of that for me. So fix the bug so I can have it my way and you your way.
Is it so hard to understand that the software easily can handle ISO standard format too? As it IS an ISO standard.

Thirdly, I don't travel to US becouse it is no loger the country of freedom. I visit this site through Internet, and don't have to take the risk of be put into jail without trial and date for a court session. Yes, it is of topic, but you brought it up when you argued so badly about "do it MY way or take the HIGHWAY".

So, if it isn't that hard, as you claim. Why don't you learn the propper international standard date format? Then you will be prepared to travel outside US.

Worse yet. Why do YOU deny ME to have dates presented to ME in a way I am used to? When it DOESN'T take away the possibilities to have dates formated in YOUR prefered way to YOU?

Originally Posted by Jaxån No, I wont, becouse if one uses some math thinking, one see that there IS a lot of combinations where you can't figure out if there is DD-MM och MM-DD just by looking at the date. And that problem will return each and every year with the US and UK formats. ISO date format was designed to eliminat this problem. Not just for sorting dates. You are wrong. vBulletin is quite capable of showing ISO date format. As there is an option for that in many other vBulletin boards. I have not seen in any place that this site should be exlusive US site. I have seen seen profs on that the site owner is inviting sitizens from other countries to come and ask and answers questions. So with your arguments, as I understands it, it is ok for US citizens to claim that some strange format is/should be used by Europe citizens, when it actually is only used in one small country here? And that this problem is easily fixed in the code? PHP has already support for ISO date format. It is just a matter of corection something that is wrong in this installation, a bug actually. I think I have learned "your" language so I can make myself understod here. At least it has worked quite well before. So now it is your turn, or is it to hard for you: "Men jag kan ju alltid ta det på svenska, så får vi se om du förstår. Eftersom jag sitter i sverige och skriver detta, så besöker du mig. Så enligt ditt argument så skall du lära dig svenska, eftersom jag är i sverige nu. Eller om det räcker med datumformatet som vi använder i sverige. Jag har inte riktigt förstått vad du menar..." Secondly, US and UK dates is a BIG hassel to learn. I was not born learning to handle that strange creature. I don't care if you continue to use it. But I don't want, and shouldn't need to. There is software that should take care of that for me. So fix the bug so I can have it my way and you your way. Is it so hard to understand that the software easily can handle ISO standard format too? As it IS an ISO standard. Thirdly, I don't travel to US becouse it is no loger the country of freedom. I visit this site through Internet, and don't have to take the risk of be put into jail without trial and date for a court session. Yes, it is of topic, but you brought it up when you argued so badly about "do it MY way or take the HIGHWAY". So, if it isn't that hard, as you claim. Why don't you learn the propper international standard date format? Then you will be prepared to travel outside US. Worse yet. Why do YOU deny ME to have dates presented to ME in a way I am used to? When it DOESN'T take away the possibilities to have dates formated in YOUR prefered way to YOU?

Wow dude, I think you're taking this a little way more serious than it really is, calm down dude, it's just a site and date format, not like it's the end of the world. Just submit the feature request and move on already.. :geez:

Originally Posted by trickykid To my knowledge, vBulletin is not open source. The site is about Linux and Open Source though. Let's stay on topic and not start a war on who's right and wrong when it comes to standards used.

I don't care that you use UK or US date format.
I DO care that this site claims that a non european format is an "European" format. That is a bug or error, and should as such be corrected, shouldn't it? There seems to be people in this thread that thinks it is a correct European format, which it isn't.
I DO care that I can't have dates presented to ME in a European format, the ISO date format. That is a feature that I ask for.

All this is on topic, isn't it?

In the U.S. most use the standards given and presented to them. If I came to Sweden or visited a Swedish site, I'd probably either learn the language if I had to, learn the terminology used and or date format if I wanted to continue using the site, etc. It's really that easy, you simply can't please everyone in the world. And from what I recall, I believe this date format has been brought up before and Jeremy suggested they add it as a feature request. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...format-538302/ Sadly I don't see the feature request anywhere.

First. Please stop this stupid argument about "Travel to country X and have to learn...." and "In US we do use ....". It is off topic, I don't care what date format you use. I have not asked for US or UK format to be removed.

I also do not say that you need to write in any European language, except english. I DO say that among date formats, ISO should also be an option. What date format you chose to use, is up to you. But I don't think that you should demand that I use US date format. Not when there IS a international standard for how dates should be printed and that is not among the possible options.

So. this is a feature request AND a bug report.

Feature: Make ISO date format possible as a selection of presenting dates.

Bug: The so called "European" date format is wrong. There is no such thing, except possible the ISO standard. It is UK date format though, and should be presented as such.

Originally Posted by trickykid Wow dude, I think you're taking this a little way more serious than it really is, calm down dude, it's just a site and date format, not like it's the end of the world. Just submit the feature request and move on already.. :geez:

Well, when some americans claims that they know better what date format is used in Europe, where I happen to live and they also claims that "Its my way or high way" I get a bit upset.

Originally Posted by Jaxån Well, when some americans claims that they know better what date format is used in Europe, where I happen to live and they also claims that "Its my way or high way" I get a bit upset.

Well, you should realize I'm not or wasn't forcing you, it was an expression of opinion, which happens on forums. I still think you were taking it way too seriously. Feature requests are under the LQ Bugs link, pointed out in the thread I linked to when Jeremy said, "submit it in the bug tracker as a feature request"..

As a European (despite what Eurosceptics will claim) the dd-mmm-yyyy format is easy for me to understand. Also, fast moving threads will not even have a date on them, they will say "today" or "yesterday", beyond that all I worry about is the month and year to see how old a thread or answer is.

Yes, the ISO format is good and understandable and I use it for file naming conventions regularly, but on a semi-formal, friendly board like this it really isn't that important. To me, at least.

If you would like to add it as a feature request though you are free to do so. Go to http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/project.php to add it.