I would like to test an unknown midi device

dunbar · 04-02-2004, 11:18 PM

SuSe 9.0, Athlon Tbird, DFI AK75EC mobo, MIDI is enabled in BIOS, Via chipset for sound is 82xx.
Sound works perfectly - xmms works fine, trommler works fine, Hydrogen works fine, and soundtracker plays tracks just fine.

I have a midi keyboard which has remained unproven ever since I purchased it new. I have the cables connected correctly according to all the diagrams, the power LED is lit, really, this thing should be good to go....

It is a Reveal 3 octave 'Musicstar' midi keyboard, nothing fancy, and knowing how Reveal operated at the end of their business life, I would not be surprised if the thing was defective..... but in any event, I get nothing from it in Soundtracker, nothing in Brahms, nothing in any midi program.

BTW, the keyboard came with Windows 3.1 software, I tried the software in Windows ME, but no response on the PC from me playing the keyboard.I merely need a simple but absolutely foolproof test to determine if the keyboard is defective.... so I can understand whether anything ever comes from it; if it is junk, so be it, but I really can't tell unless some midi guru is totally certain that a known test will prove the setup works.

Might teeing my midi port to std out do it? If so... how do I do that?

Really getting sick of this - should be a very simple solution.

Any help would be appreciated. FWIW, if there is a better place to ask this, knowing that would also be appreciated.

dunbar · 04-04-2004, 09:25 PM

dunbar · 04-05-2004, 11:52 PM

Right.

Marble · 04-06-2004, 02:10 AM

It's been years since I have messed with any MIDI devices. I can't think of any way to test if it's sending midi events except thru a piece of hardware, ie like a midi patchbay that has some indicator lights whenever it recieves a signal....

Are you sure you are matching the midi port to the software?

dunbar · 04-06-2004, 09:27 AM

Exactly the point I'd need to rectify, Marble. I'm not sure the keyboard is functional, I believe MIDI is enabled in PC BIOS, I am not certain if alsa is getting any 'events' or signals from that keyboard, I do not know how to connect the hardware data flow (/dev/midi?) into the midi sequencer or whatever software, and so forth.

EDIT: With so many possible misconfigurations, I wanted to get into a simpler, more trustworthy configuration just to eliminate some variables (if I knew the keyboard worked, I'd be certain the problem was software config, etc).

As it has been years since you setup midi, are you aware of alsa having a soft patch bay called 'aconnect'? If I understand the issues correctly, I'd have to get through the patch bay, and I think I have configured aconnect correctly at least once, but never got the keyboard to show software activity....

FWIW, the keyboard came with Windows 3.1 software (it is new keyboard as in I'm the first owner, but it was sold from left over stock from a warehouse)... and the windows software failed to respond to the keyboard as well, but then again, I installed the keyboards Windows 3.1 software under Windows ME.... is there a software incompatibility there? Most likely!

What is a midi patchbay.... is it a piece of hardware?

dunbar · 04-11-2004, 12:23 AM

bump - any ideas of a simple way to confirm MID instrument is talking to my PC?

dunbar · 04-20-2004, 01:02 PM

What - this is radio shack? I've got questions, You've all got blank stares???
Nothing in aconnect? Can I port the midi device into the console to see strings flash by?

Marble · 04-20-2004, 01:23 PM

Midi patchbay is just that, a patchbay. You might have 4 midi devices plugged into a patchbay, then plugged into a computer, eg.

But aside from that you are sure you are going (keyboard) OUT -> IN (Midi port) (and not using THRU), then using the correct port number (1-16) and that the synth module (software I assume?) is using the same port#?

Reason I mentioned the patchbay is because they have indicator lights (usually).

Also maybe check to see if GLOBALS is turned off in your keyboard? I can't remember the exact word - like I said it's been years since I messed with syncing a bunch of midi crap together.

dunbar · 04-20-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marble
Midi patchbay is just that, a patchbay. You might have 4 midi devices plugged into a patchbay, then plugged into a computer, eg.

But aside from that you are sure you are going (keyboard) OUT -> IN (Midi port) (and not using THRU), then using the correct port number (1-16) and that the synth module (software I assume?) is using the same port#?

Reason I mentioned the patchbay is because they have indicator lights (usually).

Also maybe check to see if GLOBALS is turned off in your keyboard? I can't remember the exact word - like I said it's been years since I messed with syncing a bunch of midi crap together.

Generic keyboard: Musicstar, made by Reveal, long gone. This is practically a toy, but it has MIDI output.
-GLOBALS? Nothing of the sort.... No displays, no LCDs, and no communications AFACT.
-THRU? Nothing on the keyboard sets anything like that.... just a function select for rythms and octave select. And a power switch.

PC has MPU401 port enabled (PCs connector is shared: either use it as a joystick or as MPU401... BIOS set to MPU401). Is that correct for MIDI?
I do not own any other MIDI stuff, no clues about even entry level MIDI stuff, because this was to be my starting point - get the keyboard to run.
The keyboard came with Windows 3.1 software (old production run, but I bought it new, sealed in the original retail carton, last spring).

TIA

maroonbaboon · 04-21-2004, 09:30 AM

No-one has mentioned the word 'driver' in this discussion so far. Checking my kernel config file (v 2.6.3) I see an option CONFIG_SND_MPU401. So I guess the first question is 'do you have the snd_mpu401 module loaded?'.

Also there is an alsa app called 'aseqview' which I think does what you want. Not presently on my system so I can't check.

If your keyboard is recognised I think it should show up in the output of 'aconnect -io', which should show all available midi ports. e.g. Here's my software synthesiser

% aconnect -io
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
0 'Timer '
1 'Announce '
client 128: 'Client-128' [type=user]
0 'TiMidity port 0 '
1 'TiMidity port 1 '

dunbar · 04-21-2004, 08:31 PM

I turned on my midi keyboard, then powered up the PC.... I reviewed my BIOS settings:

ONBOARD LEGACY AUDIO:
ENABLED DISABLED

SOUND BLASTER:
ENABLED DISABLED

SB I/O ADDRESS:
220H 240H 260H 280H

SB IRQ SELECT:
5 7 9 10

SB DMA SELECT:
0 1 2 3

MPU401:
ENABLED DISABLED

MPU401 I/O ADDRESS:
300-303H
310-313H
320-323H
330-333H

GAME PORT (200-207H:
ENABLED DISABLED

Code:

linux:~ # lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by    Tainted: P
snd-seq                41424   1  (autoclean)
snd-mixer-oss          15576   0  (autoclean)
videodev                6272   0  (autoclean)
SNIP
snd-via82xx            16064   4
snd-pcm                74116   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-timer              17056   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
snd-ac97-codec         45304   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-page-alloc          6676   0  [snd-via82xx snd-pcm]
snd-mpu401-uart         4128   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-rawmidi            15776   0  [snd-mpu401-uart]
snd-seq-device          4528   0  [snd-seq snd-rawmidi]
snd                    40388   4  [snd-seq snd-mixer-oss snd-via82xx snd-pcm snd-timer snd-ac97-codec snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device]
soundcore               3940   0  [snd]
st                     29648   0  (autoclean) (unused)
sr_mod                 14616   0  (autoclean)
sg                     35232   0  (autoclean)
SNIP
linux:~ #


linux:~ # aconnect -li -lo
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
    0 'Timer           '
    1 'Announce        '
client 128: 'KAMix' [type=user]
    0 'qamix           '
linux:~ #

Nothing readable, correct?

The MIDI device was powered up before the system was powered up, before hardware detection was initiated.

I believe that I had read a tutorial somewhere that wanted a vir-midi module...

Code:

linux:~ #
linux:~ # modprobe -v snd-virmidi
/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/core/seq/snd-seq-midi-event.o
Using /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/core/seq/snd-seq-midi-event.o
Symbol version prefix ''
/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/core/seq/snd-seq-virmidi.o
Using /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/core/seq/snd-seq-virmidi.o
/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/drivers/snd-virmidi.o
Using /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/kernel/sound/drivers/snd-virmidi.o
linux:~ #

okay, I've made changes... lets double check:

Code:

linux:~ #
linux:~ # lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by    Tainted: P
snd-virmidi             1376   0  (unused)
snd-seq-virmidi         4040   0  [snd-virmidi]
snd-seq-midi-event      3840   0  [snd-seq-virmidi]
snd-seq                41424   1  (autoclean) [snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-midi-event]
snd-mixer-oss          15576   0  (autoclean)
videodev                6272   0  (autoclean)
SNIP
snd-via82xx            16064   4
snd-pcm                74116   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-timer              17056   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
snd-ac97-codec         45304   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-page-alloc          6676   0  [snd-via82xx snd-pcm]
snd-mpu401-uart         4128   0  [snd-via82xx]
snd-rawmidi            15776   0  [snd-seq-virmidi snd-mpu401-uart]
snd-seq-device          4528   0  [snd-seq snd-rawmidi]
snd                    40388   4  [snd-virmidi snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-midi-event snd-seq snd-mixer-oss snd-via82xx snd-pcm snd-timer snd-ac97-codec snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device]
soundcore               3940   0  [snd]
st                     29648   0  (autoclean) (unused)
sr_mod                 14616   0  (autoclean)
sg                     35232   0  (autoclean)
SNIP
linux:~ #

Okay, I gained a few entries at the start of the list.
Anything new in aconnect?

Code:

linux:~ #
linux:~ # aconnect -li -lo
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
    0 'Timer           '
    1 'Announce        '
client 72: 'Virtual Raw MIDI 1-0' [type=kernel]
    0 'VirMIDI 1-0     '
client 73: 'Virtual Raw MIDI 1-1' [type=kernel]
    0 'VirMIDI 1-1     '
client 74: 'Virtual Raw MIDI 1-2' [type=kernel]
    0 'VirMIDI 1-2     '
client 75: 'Virtual Raw MIDI 1-3' [type=kernel]
    0 'VirMIDI 1-3     '
client 129: 'KAMix' [type=user]
    0 'qamix           '
linux:~ #

Coolness? I think!
When I open KAconnect, I see the 4 clients, 72-75, listed as both 'Readable ports' and 'Writeable ports' and also as writeable, I see KAMix. I connectall 4 readable ports to the KAMix writeable port, but nothing happens when I hit the keyboard..... Now what?

I have the following installed programs:
Under the category 'Sequencer'
Hydrogen
Jazz
Muse
NoteEdit
RT-Synth
RT-Synth jack
Rosegarden
Soundtracker
Trommler
Brahms
Seq24
tk707
Tkeca

Under the category 'Music'
ASeqView
ALSAModularSynth
Ecamegapedal
EXtace Waveform Display
KAconnect
KWaveView
Meterbridge
Pd
QJackConnect
QMidiControl
QMidiRoute
SpiralSynth
SpiralSynthModular
ZynAddSubFX
Gdam
terminatorX
vkeybd

under the category 'Media Editing'
Audacity
SoundStudio
Sweep
gAlan
Kino
Swami

under the category 'More Programs'
JackRack

under the category 'Administration'
HDSPconf
GJackCtl
ARTS Builder
ARTS Control Tool
ladcca Client

under the category 'Volume Control,
about a dozen mixers, including KAMix (Client 129, maybe?).

I believe that if I launch something that deals with MIDI, it will pop into kaconnect as either readable, writeable, or both.
When I launch Muse, it appears in kaconnect as both writeable and readable.... when I connect the readable midi devices to Muse and then connect Muse to the mixer, nothing happens when I hit the keyboard....

BTW, before I forget to ask, where, in SuSe, do I setup to have vir-midi be loaded at each boot... Yast2? SAX2? /etc/modules.conf? Some distros will control the modules.conf file automatically, making any manual edits useless; I'd need to know specifically how SuSe handles the users wishes...

maroonbaboon · 04-22-2004, 01:50 AM

I'm trying to figure out some midi problems myself, so it is interesting to read your post.

I still think your problem is hardware/driver. When the correct driver is loaded the MPU401 should be right there in the output of aconnect -oil.

Some googling reveals that maybe you need something like

alias snd-card-1 snd-mpu401
options snd-card-1 port=0x330 irq=10
alias sound-slot-1 snd-card-1
alias sound-service-1-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-1-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-1-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-1-12 snd-pcm-oss

in your /etc/modules.conf file. You probably already have something like snd-via82xx as snd-card-0.

For example, check out the thread at....

http://uug.byu.edu/pipermail/uug-lis...ay/003246.html

Certainly the port and irq should match your BIOS settings. I'm not really sure about those other lines -- I never really got linux sound figured out. Hopefully things will settle down a bit with the 2.6 kernel.

dunbar · 04-22-2004, 06:46 AM

I just re-read the MIDI How-To, and you have correctly pointed out that I have omitted some necessary 'alias' entries - thank you very much!

I'll hopefully post replies soon about whether this works (life gets busy for the next few days... might be next week before I get to doing this).

dunbar · 05-17-2004, 09:28 PM

I'm sorry for the major delays, real life took precedence and I've still only but a short spell.

Here goes:

I have checked my /etc/modules.conf and it is definitely missing a few things that the link from maroonbaboon suggests.

When I grepped the /etc/modules.conf file for '401', I got nothing; grepping for 'port' also finds nothing..... so I conclude here that my /etc/modules.conf is missing these 2 entries:

alias snd-card-1 snd-mpu401
options snd-card-1 port=0x330 irq=10

And happily, I have everything else that is listed in that link that maroonbaboon provided.

Lemme do a quick edit, and a normal reboot, I'll be right back.....

dunbar · 05-17-2004, 09:59 PM

Ok, that was an uninformative experience: during bootup, SuSe 9.0 complained about /etc/modules.conf.local being newer than /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/modules.dep, spewed 20 or more athlon related filenames onto the screen and pronounced the result of the bootup step as 'failed' or some such.

Since so many athlon items were listed within the 'failed' step, and since this is an athlon box, I felt that the original /etc/modules.conf.local was a better choice - I restored the original /etc/modules.conf.local file and again rebooted... no 'failed' message, but still a complaint during boot that /etc/modules/conf/local was newer than /lib/modules/2.4.21-99-athlon/modules.dep.

Anyone care to comment on either of the following 2 questions?
a] where am I supposed to put the needed edits?
or
b] If I return to using my customized /etc/modules.conf.local, will my install of SuSe 9.0 will become unstable? (I really do not want to lose this install.)

Fair warning: SuSe 9.0 has placed a note in my /etc/modules.conf file that instructs users to put their edits into /etc/modules.conf.local, which I did as required, but that generated the boot time error......