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Old 06-16-2004, 12:41 PM   #16
dalek
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rcrules posted while I was typing, see bottom of sig. UPDATE.

The mobo comes with a plate to cover the connectors on the back. It is a bit flimsy but it works well. Just pop out the old one and pop in the new one. Mine also uses screws to old it in. Varies from case to case though but should be about the same. There are standards for that too.

Later, again

 
Old 06-16-2004, 05:34 PM   #17
southsibling
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U-Build computer guru

http://www.mysuperpc.com/

This site is a beautiful thing. Very well thought-out, written-out, and maintained by a guy who has 'been there' quite a number of times.

I am in a position where I've got a reasonably decent (Dell) desktop, so I am approaching the build thing on an easy, piece-by-piece, (buy a piece this payday, and maybe something else in a coupla more weeks) learn as I go sorta thing, with no time-frame constraints, so it oughta be (and so far is) a fairly painless and good learning experience.

Good luck to you...
 
Old 06-16-2004, 08:10 PM   #18
rcrules
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Something that I forgot to mention earlier on in the thread is that, you might know this already, but since that ASUS board that dalek mentioned earlier on runs an NForce2 chipset, you might run into some problems in linux once you get the thing running. For instance, in 2.6 kernel, the onboard NIC doesn't work without some tweaking in any kernel flavor other than mm-sources. If you end up going 2.6, you'll have to go mm-sources, or you'll have to patch the kernel with forcedeth. I don't know how the onboard sound is supported by OSS or ALSA (I've never had a need to run drivers for the onboard audio). Just thought I'd give you the heads up with that one.

Oh yeah, and another thing. Speaking of unlocked CPUs, more AMD's than Intel chips are unlocked. A lot of times the older AthlonXP's are unlocked (my Athlon XP 1800+ has an unlocked multiplier, although I've never really overclocked it) Also, yes, AMD chips heat a lot, but P4's, especially the faster ones, heat a lot more than even that. Heck, I've even seen a P4 2.8GHz laptop that had a burn warning on its back side b/c the proc was so hot! Regardless, though, make sure that you get a cooler that is recommended for your CPU.
 
Old 06-16-2004, 08:18 PM   #19
Fear58
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Ok, so the mobo dalek had posted will work/fit with this case i bought from ebay right? I'm not completely understanding..sorry. Also, I had never installed a cpu, any sites that can give me some graphical step by step processes, like in pictures, or does a manuel come with the mobo or cpu to show this?

And fans never really crossed my mind before, but i realized i do need them lol. So all i need is that spare fan like dalek pointed out and somehow mount it inside too cool my cpu? again, thanks for all the help and sorry for the newbish questions.
 
Old 06-16-2004, 08:22 PM   #20
Fear58
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Oh yea, pulled this off of the ebay auction page of my case:


"400 Watts maximum output


Exclusive DC connector for Pentium-4 CPU


Optional 6-pin connector


Single sleeve-bearing fan


Voltage switch for 115/240V AC input


Support Intel "Pentium-4" and AMD "Athlon XP"


Complies with ATX 2.03 and ATX12V 1.1


Certified by UL, CSA, CE & FCC "


Exclusive DC connector for Pentium-4 CPU = What is this? Will my AMD CPU still get power?
 
Old 06-16-2004, 08:41 PM   #21
J.W.
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Bro - the components that dalek recommended are top notch for the budget you indicated. In my view, the most important factor is for the mobo, RAM, and CPU to all match, and dalek's recommendations do. The CPU runs 333 Mz FSB, the mobo supports a 333 FSB, and the RAM is DDR 333. You're golden if you buy this, and Newegg is an excellent vendor. I've built 2 systems from scratch using components I've purchased from them and their prices and service are amazing.

Almost every case in the world will work with the ATX form factor, so Yes, the mobo will fit into the case correctly. Installing a CPU is easy -- the pins on the chip are arranged in such a way that it will only fit into the socket exactly one way. Do NOT try to force it in, when the pins are aligned correctly the chip will basically just fall into the socket. The chip is square, so there are only 4 possible way you could try to fit it in. Just be gentle with it. AMD chips come with one corner marked, and if you look closely at the socket, one corner will be "missing" a pin. Just line up the marked corner on the chip with the marked corner on the socket and you should be fine.

Finally, Yes, your AMD will get power. The case is just a shell and really doesn't do that much except hold everything else in place. The mobo/CPU/RAM combination that dalek listed are the critical pieces, and they would fit into any ATX case.

My 2 cents recommendation would be to follow dalek's advice to a T. That's just my 2 cents but unless you are really really gung ho on that case, dalek's setup would rock. Good luck with the project -- J.W.
 
Old 06-16-2004, 11:19 PM   #22
dalek
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If you want to look at pictures and videos on how to build a rig, here you go.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...2_9342,00.html

J.W., are you trying to say I did something right for once? <adjusting hat, head swelling>

I basically have the exact system listed above. I don't play doom or quake but it is really fast, especially with me overclocking to the same as a 3200. You will be happy. If you play games, you just need a better video card, that is all you really need to change. More memory may help but 512MBs is a sweet spot anyway. I have 1GB because I use Linux and it uses all the left over memory for cache. I'm not sure if windoze does that or not. I don't use windoze.

If you plan to overclock, you may want to buy a mobile chip instead. You can check ocforums for which is best. The desktop ones are locked and harder to overclock. They did that because some screwball was selling cheaper, slower, CPUs as faster more expensive ones. They were not telling the customer this, naturally.

I can tell you that what I listed, WORKS. I am typing on it right now. It has been running for about a year with no problems at all. ABIT NF7 is a highly rated mobo whether you overclock or not. Look at ocforums and see what they say. There may be a few sent back for repairs on occasion but everything breaks from time to time, regardless of who makes it. The NF7 is top notch. If I were going to build another rig for myself, or for a friend, it would look a lot like this one. I did replace the Northbridge cooler. I liked that copper look and it cools better.

The mobo, memory and CPU are the core of a system, as stated above. Any one of them will drive you nuts if there are problems. You can't remove the CPU and 'see if that is the problem'. Don't skimp on those for sure, video card comes next.

I recommend that you buy the mobo, CPU, and memory from the same place, at the same time if possible. You can get a bad stick of ram or a bad CPU from time to time. It is really hard to test them unless you have a spare system to swap from. If you get them from one place then you only have to deal with one company. If you buy from different places, you may wind up with one pointing to the other and you stuck in the middle.

Also, if you plan to overclock, get a OEM version of the chip, not the retail. You won't need the heatsink that comes with the retail version since I have one listed above. Also, buy a tube of this regardless.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...129-001&depa=0

I also recommend Newegg. I have had no problems with their service or products.

When are we going to see this rig?

Later

 
Old 06-16-2004, 11:47 PM   #23
rcrules
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First of all, kudos to dalek for the excellent advice, and also for that website that I never knew existed =) By the way, i looked at the CPU installation video on that link just for fun, and those are excellent instructions (wish I saw that when I was building my rig). One thing, though, I don't know if thermal paste is always necessary anymore. I know that a lot of heatsinks now come with this new stuff called "phase-change compound" or something like that. It's this wierd sticky stuff that, apparently, so I have read, does the same thing as the thermal paste. Also, apparently if you already have phase-change stuff on the heatsink, you really aren't supposed to apply the thermal paste in addition (although probably not the end of the world; I've done that once, and the proc only ran a few degrees hotter than it should have). My advice would probably be to either use just the phase-change compound, or if you want to go with the arctic silver compound (which is supposedly the best thermal paste you can get) make sure you scrape off the phase-change stuff.
 
Old 06-17-2004, 12:00 AM   #24
philosphrstone
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Good advice throughout for sure. I use Arctic Silver, been running a retail barton 2500+ as a 2800+ (11x upped to 12.5x in bios) for a year now, with the stock AMD fan, and it runs great. Arctic Silver lowers the temp by a few degrees over the white sticker stuff they put on the heat sink from factory, but it's expensive. If I wasn't OC'd, I wouldn't bother...
 
Old 06-17-2004, 12:08 AM   #25
dalek
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If he uses the retail, it will come with the sticky thing. If he buys OEM and the Volcano, he must get the paste stuff. Arctic Silver is really good and not a budget breaker. Note of warning though. USE SPARINGLY. It takes only a very small amount to do the job. I put about half the size of a b-b and then spread with one of those plastic toothpicks that is bent on the end, made by Pro Picks. Works perfectly. It is soft and that little bent thing on the end smooths that stuff out like a pro.

I want to see pics. Are you building yet?

Later

 
Old 06-17-2004, 12:50 AM   #26
tigerflag
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Some stuff I've learned the hard way...

Look at my sig. I built this box for about $450. One harddrive was harvested and your case might cost a little less. Everything in it sets up and runs flawlessly in Linux. My type of gaming is playing Iagno, but my husband playes stuff like Maelstrom and some 3D things, and it's quite adequate. It's FAST, especially running Slackware with extraneous services and animated eye candy turned off.

Some words of advice:

Use an anti-static wristband whenever working with electronic components. Lock your cats out of the room. Hear to them scream through the door for hours on end. If you weaken and open the door, they will immediately and unerringly jump onto the center of your motherboard. I digress...

Remember to get a GOOD surge suppressor. Use demagnetized screwdrivers if you can get them. Frys has a great little computer repair kit for about $8-$9 that has demagnetized tools.

Take your new harddrive from it's package and let it breathe for at least 24 hours before installing it. Harddrives are usually made in hot, humid, low altitude places like Malasia. They are tightly sealed against letting dust in, but not vacuum sealed. When they get shipped to higher, dryer altitudes they can actually form small amounts of condensation that can fry them if you run current through them. You need to let them acclimate and dry out before plugging them in and flipping the switch. I learned this from a computer repair teacher at college, and he's one of the smartest computer guys I've ever known. I know it sounds wierd, but I trust him.

Avoid USB keyboards and mice. They're often problematic to configure. A PS/2 connected keyboard has an interrupt of 1. This means that the processor gives the keyboard priority above everything else. USB devices use IRQ 10. If you're using a USB keyboard and some device using an IRQ between 2 and 10 goes bonkers, you might not be able to use your keyboard. On the basis of IRQ's alone, I think USB keyboards are a bad idea.

Athlons give you a lot more bang for the buck than Pentiums, but they can be fragile when putting on the heatsink. The one I use for all the boxes I build now is a Speeze (or Spire?) Falcon Rock II, from Newegg.com for less than $15. It cools amazingly well, is SILENT, and has three connector lugs where it clamps to the motherboard instead of the usual one. That makes it more secure. It also clips on very easily compared to some heatsinks, so you're not likely to crack the CPU from exerting too much force. I've tried a LOT of heatsinks and none even come close to this one!

Artic Silver paste will cut the CPU temps by several degrees, compared to cheap heatsink grease. Use a tiny amount, just enough to make a thin film over the processor die.

Don't skimp on your power supply, RAM or fans. You want smooth current running through everything to ensure stability. A lot of glitchy behavior that people attribute to their Operating Systems can often be traced to a cheap power supply or cheap, inferior quality RAM. I like Crucial RAM. It isn't that much more expensive than junky RAM and can make a big difference in performance. I highly recommend Antec power supplies, but it looks like your case is coming with it's own.

Some motherboards have a chipset wierdness that won't let 2 sticks of RAM be recognized. So if I want 512 MB, I buy one stick of 512 rather than two sticks of 256 MB.

Onboard sound and video will use some of your CPU clock cycles. If you use add-on AGP and PCI cards, you'll probably find it easier to configure and the system will run somewhat faster. Get your soundcard configured and working before adding other cards, as the soundcard is usually the fussiest one. Let it have it's way regarding IRQ choice, and put the other cards in after it.

Remember to set up your BIOS correctly regarding your AGP and PCI cards. If your motherboard comes with onboard sound or video, but you use add-on cards, then disable the onboard sound or video in your BIOS. Otherwise, you'll pull your hair out trying to figure out why Linux doesn't see your soundcard...

Newegg.com is one of the most reputable places you can order from. I find I don't shop around as much as I used to because they almost always have the best deal. I got my video card from tigerdirect. My cheap little sound card's C-Media 8738LX chipset gives awesome sound- as good as much more expensive cards. My ancient cast iron speakers and subwoofer don't hurt ;-)

I got an Enermax server case that had room for lots of fans. The drives slide in on tracks that don't require any screws. They face the side of the box so you can easily see the jumpers. It has a top fan blowhole that lets rising heat out. One 80mm intake fan in the front, one in the side over the CPU and video card, one outake fan in the back and another outake fan in the top, plus the power supply fans. The fans are all large, slow and therefore quiet. The power supply is big enough to support them. My home is 75 degrees F. System temp is 80, and CPU temp is 83-85F. It is totally silent. You just need a hydraulic lift to move my box, though...

Hope this helps. Have fun!

Siri Amrit
 
Old 06-17-2004, 01:35 AM   #27
J.W.
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Just to follow-up: dalek -- FWIW I think your advice/posts pretty much rock. I've learned a good amount about Linux just from reading your posts, so a big Thanks is in order. I'll have to say I've always been a little confused by your sig line about being a "slow typist" because I don't see why this would matter. I'm much more interested in seeing worthwhile and useful posts than "speedy" posts, and since I check in to LQ several times a day, if you happen to in the middle of responding to a post at say 2:00 PM, I might not see it right that instant but I definitely will see it when I check back later that afternoon at say 4:30. In other words, the time delta between a question and a response is pretty much a non-issue; what's far more important is the quality of the information provided in that response. If it's your style to take a few extra moments to carefully polish your responses, then so be it, bro that's what makes LQ so awesome. Your posts always rate highly.

In any event, to get back on topic, if you are looking to build your own rig and have a similar budget, the system components dalek listed are some seriously great suggestions to consider. Not to repeat what's already been covered but in my view, matching the mobo to the CPU to the RAM is the cornerstone of a solid system, and dalek's suggestions do exactly that. -- J.W.
 
Old 06-17-2004, 02:06 AM   #28
dalek
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I'm trying to get up out of the floor. I think I fainted. Not scratching, I'm rubbing the sore spot. Ouch.

I spent several months picking each component for this rig. I spent a lot of time on the mobo and CPU. The video card was pretty easy. It likes Linux so we are good buddys. Thanks NVIDIA, still wish they were so good with Nforce crap. It works, just wish the sound was better. SoundBlaster will fix that though.

I try to be accurate. I re-read each post several times to make sure I get the right point across. I type badly, I can't spell worth crap and sometimes I just don't know how to explain something. Sometimes, I just give up and close the tab. If I can't get it right, I just wait a while and try again. Love tabs n Mozilla.

I wish I could type better. If I ever rub the print off that Backspace key, I'm screwed.

Let us know when you get it built. May as well see what we got you going on.

Later


I hope you never visit Gentoo forums. They hate me.
 
Old 06-17-2004, 07:38 AM   #29
RobertP
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Re: First time building PC, need hardware help/suggestions for a budget poweruser/gamer

Quote:
Originally posted by Fear58
I found an awsome looking case on Ebay for about $50 that i am really interested in, and something caught my eye. I'm really new to buying hardware, so I need some help. The case starts with "ATX" ...
Right now I have $400 to spend on this system. Can anyone recommend Video cards, sound card, hard drives, motherboard and processor, RAM, and in general everything in the guys of a PC? Anyone know some pretty reliable sties that offer low priced hardware?
If you are sticking to 32 bit , take a look at Soltek's cheap but powerful Nforce2 mobo:
NCIX.COM Soltek mobo . If you register with NCIX, they give special prices. Most weeks you can buy this beast for $80 CDN. It has dual channel RAM. You can get a good deal on AMD2500, 2 X 512 mB DDR 333 RAM and dual ATA133 hard drives. The mobo comes with only one ATA133 cable, so buy a second one. You can set this thing up with software RAID 1 to read two files at once for faster loading. $400 US should cover it.
 
Old 06-17-2004, 09:23 AM   #30
Fear58
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Thanks for all the help all.

I should get my case anytime this week and i am going to start ordering hardware from newegg today after work. Thanks all!
I will show pics along the way
 
  


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