The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by ardvark71 The distinction here is that human beings were/are/will be created in the image of God, animals aren't. We were designed to live for eternity....and we do.

This is because the bible and faith are human based concepts. I'm sure if a squirrel conceived about their creationism, they'd center those concepts around their genre.

My concern (and I'm leaving my religious beliefs out of this, although one can probably guess) is that there's this "distinction" which places what we call human beings above literally every other being on the Earth and that the Earth and Universe were created for human beings.

Where does one draw the lines of prejudice distinction? People vs. Whales? People vs. Chimpanzees? People vs. Apes?

... Whites vs. Blacks? Males vs. Females? Note that some religions place a male fully above females.

I shall add some lightheartedness to this, because other men on the forums have alluded to this preference ... but to me, a guy ... heaven would be "forever with a beautiful redheaded woman"

Originally Posted by ardvark71 The evidence is all around you. Could the trees, rocks and flowers you see create themselves from nothing?

But ... they do! Trees begat other trees. Flowers begat other flowers. Rocks do actually begat other rocks, they break apart and make smaller ones. Magma cools and forms rocks. Pressure forms rocks. A primary component is carbon. Funnily enough, a primary component of us is also carbon.

Anyways, we'll have to agree to disagree. I see what you have is faith and I do not wish to deter you from that or insult that. However please understand that I follow a different faith. I do feel that we possibly have a spirit which can transcend our mortal existence. Just not in the classical sense that fits with any religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by rtmistler This is because the bible and faith are human based concepts.

Actually, no. Men have written the different Books in the Bible but the Words themselves came from God. In 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV) we find that...

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Because of this, The Bible is unique and unlike any other book and is called the "Living Word" by many. God uses it to bring people to Himself and transform the lives of His people, in the heart and mind, from the inside out. I bear personal witness to this because I am one of many examples. Please see Hebrews 4:12.

Originally Posted by rtmistler I see what you have is faith and I do not wish to deter you from that or insult that.

Praise God for what you see in me. The faith I now have didn't come overnight or easily at times. I want to emphasize again, as I have did in another thread, that I do not worship a dead human being who merely taught his ideas on how to live a good life while he was here, I worship the One True God who is ALIVE and in me, from Whom the teachings, or Scripture, came from!! I have a real relationship with Him, I talk with Him and He talks with me (in many different ways.) I spend time with Him. He teaches and corrects me, like a father would, as examples. Yes, it's by faith in Him that I walk but even though I don't see Him with own two eyes, He's just as real to me, even more so, as if I were talking to another human being in front of me.

Regards...

But on the other hand if you thank your god for rocks, flowers and trees then you must also thank him for diseases.
Yes lets thank the great lord for smallpox, measles, ebola, AIDS (especially for those homosexuals as you know Leviticus and all), SARS, West Nile, the black death.
Not to mention things like cancer, birth defects, mental illness, scleroderma, sickle cell disease and a bunch of others one can inherit via genetics.
What a nice loving fellow god is eh?
Oh wait thats the work of the devil... well your god also kind of created him too.
Hey its in the blble, yes as an atheist I read it too.

It hardly seems like evidence that a man writes about God and then claims God gave him the words. That scam has appeared many times, in many cultures. Don't forget that Noah's Flood was all but lifted from The Epic of Gilgamesh Gilgamesh Flood written fully 2000+ years before the christian bible. Then of course there is Occam's Razor for conclusions that "require" a deity outside our Universe.

I am truly not wishing to insult anyone. Proof of that is that I instead assume that in addition to Faith, you also have Reason, and have no problem with your conclusions when conflict arises... as long as you don't try to force it on others. I do recognize that is problematic for some since even that is in direct conflict with Evangelism, but I try to take that on an individual basis. I strive to never hurt another who has not tried to hurt me.

As for human egocentric view of "dominion" it is worth considering that healthy Sperm Whales and Porpoises have more neural connections in their brains than any healthy human has ever had. That we are unable to decipher their language (whales could communicate with each other half way around the Earth while humans had yet to exist and until a very short time ago were stuck with drums, bells, horns and smoke signals... or other animals) doesn't mean we have something they don't nor they have something we don't. We simply have yet to be able to comprehend Consciousness or Intelligence, let alone animal abilities, many of which use tools and have civilizations.

The problem is that religion has hurt people, just take a look at the middle east sometime.
And if you say "thats not Christians!"
Ever hear of the Spanish inquisition? Not the Monty python skit.
The crusades are also filled with a lot of bad things done in the name of "the savior"

Originally Posted by MadmanRB Oh wait thats the work of the devil... well your god also kind of created him too.

Hi...

That's true, God did create Satan, but the choices Satan made were his own, not God's.

Regards...

Thus by all accounts God is just as responsible for evil as the devil. Plus old testament God was quite a asshole. Not like New testament God is any better though. After all this is the same God who says that anyone who doesn't believe his son is the one true savior Goes to Hell, sure bet those Holocaust victims would love to hear that

Originally Posted by ardvark71 I'm not sure who you're referring to but be very careful who and what you listen to. Satan and his demons hate and despise you and are keen to see your eternal destruction. They will deceive and lie to you to help make that happen.

1. I have no evidence for the existence of Satan, nor of his demons.

2. The idea that the creator would punish me eternally for any mistake made in one short lifetime strikes me as blasphemous. Attributing injustice to the divine is worse than denying it. Indeed, the frequent assertion of doctrine of eternal punishment by Jesus is one of the things that makes me sure he was no more than a human fanatic: even Muhammad (in a hadith) declared that hell was not eternal.

I too never once got a call from Satan, I guess the lazy SOB is too busy torturing Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Scientologists, Gays and other atheists right now.
He never calls, he never writes, this evil pact we Atheists must have with him because we are not christian is not working out.
Though same thing with god too, and Jesus... both are still late to show me "the way" what they do get stuck in traffic?
Deities and demons these days i swear

Originally Posted by DavidMcCann 1. I have no evidence for the existence of Satan, nor of his demons. 2. The idea that the creator would punish me eternally for any mistake made in one short lifetime strikes me as blasphemous. Attributing injustice to the divine is worse than denying it. Indeed, the frequent assertion of doctrine of eternal punishment by Jesus is one of the things that makes me sure he was no more than a human fanatic: even Muhammad (in a hadith) declared that hell was not eternal.

That's what Satan wants.

He wants people who see no need for salvation.
His destiny is hell and wants to take all he can with him.

If God sends everyone to hell for one mistake, then even Christians would go there too.

No God is just bad at his job, probably spinning around in his office chair

Why is this thread not in the religion megathread? And there are plenty of other places to go spout off about religion, why here?
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Originally Posted by Doug G Why is this thread not in the religion megathread?

Er, it is.

Originally Posted by DavidMcCann Er, it is.

Act of god

A troubled man was standing at the top of the Empire State Building, and finally decided to jump off, ending his own life.
After he had fallen awhile and was only 100 stories off the ground, he realized he made a mistake.
It was wrong to commit suicide and he knew it. He said, "Oh God if you hear me...I am sorry for the foolish mistake I made by jumping off this building. I repent and would like to know if you forgive me?" A voice came back, "Of course I forgive you. Don't think a thing about it. I will never bring it up again. And by the way, I will see you in just a minute."

God forgave the man for jumping off the building, but the man will still fall to the ground.