The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Faith doesn't need answers. It's not about that. Which is why "evil"* exists, for now!

Tho that one's not just faith in religions, We all may slip and break a hip, unplanned pregnancy or get mad at some dip?

But, we didn't kick religion out of }Evolving{ education for nothing...

Originally Posted by Philip Lacroix I'm sorry, but this is plain silly. Perhaps that happens in theology. However, what would scientific theories be about, if they were not based on something? Would they be Platonic (i.e. useless) theories? And what usefulness would they have, if they couldn't help us to interpret and understand new facts, and make predictions? And what would you say about new facts that allowed a theory to be confirmed, or improved, or even falsified?

you're are you really that naive?

a theory is a theory PERIOD. A THEORY is based on an Idea, Period, it has no proof of being a truth. that is why it is a THEORY. This is why you are so confused because you "seem" to apply a lie to your thinking, therefore end up deceiving yourself as what even a simple true about what a Theory is.

I'd say a scientific truth would be, Everything in the world consists of something man named atoms.

In scientific theories, as they are just an Idea used to try and explain how something is accomplished. A theory is something that has not been proven with tangible evidence as a truth.

Tangible Evidence is an evidence which can be treated as fact; real or concrete. It is capable of being touched or felt and have a real substance, a tangible object.

A theory that someone is using to try and prove its validity as a truth. If it has not yet been proven as a truth then it stays a theory, no matter what it is about, period.

In your case perhaps to falsify that God is a real being. Not taking into consideration that a Person with what is called a supernatural powers is able to use and manipulate what mankind calls science. For all science does it try to explain how God does (some) things.

And possibly even invented psychics, therefore knows how to manipulate it. Hows that for a scientific theory. Because that is what it is. Because idea is in the foundation of the science of psychics.

Mostly science is used to try and explain God away, and put in some a cockamamie story (theory) about something called the big bang theory, and evolution, that we came from the sea, fish to humans, no, apes to humans. But still apes exist, there would be no primates if we evolved from them. By its own theory.

It is just a mish mash of ideas added to itself to try and substantiate itself. without any proof of truth whatsoever. Its a bunch of poppy cock to try and explain away God. Because of fear of the truth. so man looks for something else to replace that with a false truth, or one takes a bit of a truth, the adds half truths, and lies to it to try and substantiate an idea which is just a theory that only ends up not only deceiving oneself but other that listen to him, or her and decides to accept it as a truth. Instead of putting it to a test first, or a holding place in the uncertain, before deciding to accept it is a absolute truth. That just sets oneself up for error.

Just as you have errored in your post to me. You obviously have not applied enough intellect to your statement before making it.

Because mankind was created for nothing but the truth. One can clearly see this if they know anything about how they work both on a physiological and psychological factors.

When someone denies a truth it then needs to be replaced with a non truth to take its place. then that just causes errors not only in ones thinking, but actions in what is said and done by that person that holds a non-truth as a truth.

this effects both the physiological and psychological sides of a person. When someone says, this is not bad for me, when it is, then consumes it in whatever way. This is a truth, the truth being that it is not good for that someone, and then is being replaced with a lie, "this is not bad for me", and that accepting that lie and acting upon it as it were a truth then causes an error in judgment and one can end up dead as a result of it.

So be careful of what you believe, because death is always waiting in the wings to consume you.

Originally Posted by BW-userx a theory is a theory PERIOD. A THEORY is based on an Idea, Period, it has no proof of being a truth. that is why it is a THEORY. (...) So be careful of what you believe, because death is always waiting in the wings to consume you.

Yes, we already know about the «It's just a theory» routine, we've heard it many, many times, and the topic has already been addressed a long time ago. You haven't answered my questions, though. What I can see in your post is a fair amount of fancy dancing, and you're messing with concepts like truth and facts in an ungodly manner, really.

Originally Posted by Philip Lacroix Yes, we already know about the «It's just a theory» routine, we've heard it many, many times, and the topic has already been addressed a long time ago. You didn't answer my questions, though. What I can see in your post is a fair amount of fancy dancing, and you're messing with concepts like truth and facts in an ungodly manner, really.

yet there still seem to be people that still do not get it, so they stay forever lost, and death is what they have in the end.

and no I am not messing with concepts like truth and facts in an ungodly manner. That part of your statement just shows what you really know about God and His creation of mankind, ie yourself.

Fact is we are created for the truth, if we do not accept a truth, then if it gets replaced with a lie and held as a truth, that causes one to error if acted upon. This can and does effect a person on both the physiological and psychological sides of that person.

go back and reread it.

Oh wait a minute...
was that suppose to be for me?
I just looked again and you shied away from actually saying whom you were referring to, and left it in a shadows as if in hiding in them while speaking so to stay out of that light.

So if you were talking to and about what I said, then yes that applies to you, if not then .... I'll let you figure that part out.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e It was a mathematical Theory that we'd be communicating wirelessly... until that fact came to play.

And if the human mind worked with mathematical rigour this illustrious thread wouldn't even exist, as the question would have been settled instantly a long time ago, with no traces of dispute.

Originally Posted by BW-userx ... a theory is a theory PERIOD. ...

Until it becomes true, then it's no longer a "theory", it's then fact. Isn't that the whole point of "scientific theories", as in; the "theory" is to either prove or disprove something? Therefore it's useless without being based on something to begin with? Because if it's based on nothing, it proves/disproves nothing?

So be careful of what you believe, because death is always waiting in the wings to consume you.

So non-believers are going to hell I take it? Even though "god" is a "theory" by definition, since nobody can prove he/it exists...?

I see.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 So non-believers are going to hell I take it?

That's a classic, which apparently is still in demand on the vintage market...

Originally Posted by Philip Lacroix Quote: Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post a theory is a theory PERIOD. A THEORY is based on an Idea, Period, it has no proof of being a truth. that is why it is a THEORY. (...) So be careful of what you believe, because death is always waiting in the wings to consume you. Yes, we already know about the «It's just a theory» routine, we've heard it many, many times, and the topic has already been addressed a long time ago. You haven't answered my questions, though. What I can see in your post is a fair amount of fancy dancing, and you're messing with concepts like truth and facts in an ungodly manner, really.

First off thank you Philip for both the quote and the reasonable response (isn't it amazing people still have to deal with this tiresome, posturing, ignorant drivel?) because I have BW-userX still on Ignore and this is evidence that is still a good and proper choice, or maybe that's "just a theory".

It is "just a theory" that the Earth revolves around the Sun while the Earth also rotates on an axis which is theoretically why it appears that the Sun comes up at sunrise and goes down at sunset. It is not a theory but just conjecture that I'm betting with the odds that even our illustrious, sanctimonious and condescending colleague, BW-userx, is banking on the fact that the Sun will very likely "set" tonight and "rise" again in the morning.

As for "death waiting in the wings to consume" whatever has that to do with what a person believes? Oh right, it's a favorite scare tactic of the evangelical to make people pay what amounts to lip service or hedging their bets "just in case". I say "Get real. Work with what you know to be true to the best of your ability based on evidence and reason. What else can be expected of any rational entity with a limited lifespan, some modicum of free will and miniscule power to effect change? Celebrate! You're incredibly lucky to be alive even for a short time".

To BW-userx - I'm not in the least bit afraid of death or dying and it is not at all far way. I'm 72. I am somewhat afraid of a painful process in getting there but that obviously has nothing to do with belief since some atheists and even some human monsters died in their sleep, painlessly and some ardent believers went out in utter agony. I'm just going to do my level best to enjoy any remaining time I have while living by a strict set of principles, interact with my friends and family, including the good folks here, and deal with whatever may come after if an when that actually occurs. To quote a famous song "I'm not giving in an inch to fear"... I just play the cards I'm dealt.

Those damn heathens have a theory that the world is round, gonna have to straighten them out.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 Until it becomes true, then it's no longer a "theory", it's then fact. Isn't that the whole point of "scientific theories", as in; the "theory" is to either prove or disprove something? Therefore it's useless without being based on something to begin with? Because if it's based on nothing, it proves/disproves nothing?

A theory is base on an IDEA HELLO ... I already posted on that...

No sh&t Sherlock, yeah if it is not a theory then it has to be a truth, or what else could it be. think about it...

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 So non-believers are going to hell I take it? Even though "god" is a "theory" by definition, since nobody can prove he/it exists...? I see.

this is why all of mankind has what is called, faith, and the ability to use faith. I bet you even you use faith, and may not even know you're applying faith in your everyday life, from time to time.

GOD actually explains how everything got here. whereas the Big Bang is just a theory with no real hard proof it established any kind of life whatsoever.

Originally Posted by enorbet First off thank you Philip for both the quote and the reasonable response (isn't it amazing people still have to deal with this tiresome, posturing, ignorant drivel?) because I have BW-userX still on Ignore and this is evidence that is still a good and proper choice, or maybe that's "just a theory". It is "just a theory" that the Earth revolves around the Sun while the Earth also rotates on an axis which is theoretically why it appears that the Sun comes up at sunrise and goes down at sunset. It is not a theory but just conjecture that I'm betting with the odds that even our illustrious, sanctimonious and condescending colleague, BW-userx, is banking on the fact that the Sun will very likely "set" tonight and "rise" again in the morning.

you have no idea what I am banking on.. stop lying to yourself about me and spreading the lies about me.

Originally Posted by enorbet As for "death waiting in the wings to consume" whatever has that to do with what a person believes? Oh right, it's a favorite scare tactic of the evangelical to make people pay what amounts to lip service or hedging their bets "just in case". I say "Get real. Work with what you know to be true to the best of your ability based on evidence and reason. What else can be expected of any rational entity with a limited lifespan, some modicum of free will and miniscule power to effect change? Celebrate! You're incredibly lucky to be alive even for a short time". To BW-userx - I'm not in the least bit afraid of death or dying and it is not at all far way. I'm 72. I am somewhat afraid of a painful process in getting there but that obviously has nothing to do with belief since some atheists and even some human monsters died in their sleep, painlessly and some ardent believers went out in utter agony. I'm just going to do my level best to enjoy any remaining time I have while living by a strict set of principles, interact with my friends and family, including the good folks here, and deal with whatever may come after if an when that actually occurs. To quote a famous song "I'm not giving in an inch to fear"... I just play the cards I'm dealt.

It is not foolish to fear—it is a matter of survival. Fear may feel negative, because it is an emotion that can be painful. the opposite then would be, it is only a fool who does not fear.

you'll have no happiness for the what comes after... if you keep that attitude.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 Until it becomes true, then it's no longer a "theory", it's then fact. Isn't that the whole point of "scientific theories", as in; the "theory" is to either prove or disprove something?

No. Theories are for explaining existing observations (facts), and predicting future ones.

It's a bit of a shame that it is apparently necessary to review some basic definitions and separate them from general (mis)usage, but here goes.

On one extreme we have....

Theory (general population usage) - a speculative idea - ie: low level of reliability or validity since anyone can imagine just about anything. The statement "just a theory" is generally used as a pejorative form of the term expressing it's very weakest reliability. often wielded as if it were a coup de gras by the uninformed. This is a misuse of the word the degree of which depends on how far from reality the idea is, at least compared to scientific theory. In Science mere speculation is called hypothesis to differentiate it from ideas that have withstood exhaustive testing. An example of usage that pertains to this thread is...

(decent odds lay theory) that Jesus the man probably actually existed is a pretty safe bet

(low level odds common theory) that Jesus walked on water or rose from the dead, being highly unlikely, is a bad theory relying on magic but accepted on Faith for those who subscribe to it.

The commonly used term theory can express all the way down to zero probability or likelihood but can possibly be used to describe higher levels. It is not an exact term when used like this.


On the other extreme we have....

Mathematical Theory (commonly called Theorem which is often a set of mathematical theories) from www.mathisfun.com "A result that has been proved to be true (using operations and facts that were already known)". The beauty of mathematics is that it is a construct with a very strict set of rules all beginning with 0 (null set) and most fundamentally, one (1). 1 = 1 because that is the definition, an identity, within the rules, from which it follows that 1 + 1 = 2 and subsequently every validated equation ever devised. This form of Theory is absolute by definition. It is absolutely 100% certain that 2 + 2 = 4 and in a right triangle on a flat plane, all angles add up to 180m degrees and a^2 + b^2 = c^2, and so on.

Somewhere down closer to planet Earth is...

Scientific Theory this is a form of study and prediction that constantly evolves since one of it's demands is "falsification" Basically that means an idea for which many expert people attempt to "poke holes" in a theory to see if it "still holds water". The more "poking" it withstands the higher the probability of reliability/validity that theory commands. Einstein's Relativity is a scientific theory but if it were not very close to certainty GPS would not work, light wouldn't bend around stars and galaxies, and the planet Mercury's orbit would still be a mystery, just to name a very few.

A more recent case that demonstrates the odds scientists require for anything even approaching proof, was revealed to many for the first time in the discovery of the Higgs Boson. That term which describes the level of "the poking of hoiles" goes like this :

Originally Posted by Physics.org 5 sigma is a measure of how confident scientists feel their results are. If experiments show results to a 5 sigma confidence level, that means if the results were due to chance and the experiment was repeated 3.5 million times then it would be expected to see the strength of conclusion in the result no more than once.

To put it simply, ask yourself this, how safe would you feel betting on "snake eyes" if a specific, unique set of dice were rolled 3,500,000 times and snake eyes came up 3,499,999 times?

Big Bang Theory is substantially less reliable than the fact of the existence of the Higgs Boson but due to the measurable expansion of the Universe and the "photos" of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, if the Big Bang Theory is not accurate, whatever else would take it's place is vastly more bizarre and currently beyond imagination, let alone evidence.

TLDR - Unless you don't care if you display ignorance, "just a theory" should never be considered a reasonable argument all on it's own. Some theories have actual evidence supporting them and scientific theories have incredible amounts of solid evidence vs/ extremely little or no evidence against them.

"gods" tell them all kinds of sh!t! L, O ...helL

Now that we've gotten "scientific theories" out of the way thanks to ntubski, and "theory" out of the way thanks to enorbet...

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Those damn heathens have a theory that the world is round, gonna have to straighten them out.

I'll let you know when their done

Originally Posted by BW-userx ... this is why all of mankind has what is called, faith, and the ability to use faith. I bet you even you use faith, and may not even know you're applying faith in your everyday life, from time to time.

It really depends on the context you're saying that in...

GOD actually explains how everything got here.

Which is just a theory without proof...

whereas the Big Bang is just a theory with no real hard proof it established any kind of life whatsoever.

I think there may well be some that might not totally agree with you there...

Originally Posted by jamison20000e "gods" tell them all kinds a sh!t! LO...HELL

Looks like I'm screwed then...

Carry on...