only replying to a few points.
Microsoft is a bad system for people who fear computers. Either an easy to use linux distribution (autoupdates, presetup - debian, fedora, or whatever), or macos would be a better choice.

You say that, but for the users that want a simple computer, they are almost forced to pay the microsoft tax just for hardware.

I do not think that having legions of paid programmers helps microsoft with product quality. Additionally, if microsoft competed in a free market and was judged on cost and quality, it would probably not be such a problem. Part of the problem is that there is not really competition for cheap/crappy microsoft style operating systems - it is a monopoly (that has been abused).

Considering how difficult microsoft is for normal people, I cannot imagine how good linux systems could be worse. As suggested by others, there exist linux systems of all sorts and flavors - non-english included.

Morally, suing rivals with better products to prevent competition is not the "right" way.

I believe "backward compatibility" means inter-operation with older (and consequently newer) versions. I read that as implying the ability to move data from a newer version to an older one.
Changing file formats (eg. saving the version of the app when saving, and only opening a file if the app is a newer version) is not a good thing. Many open source programs retain forward and backward compatibility with other versions and even other programs.

That is what I do, but many want that simple computing experience that you mentioned. And microsoft has made that very difficult - whether or not one uses microsoft or something else (macos, linux, unix, beos, etc...).

That's that argument well and truly torn to shreds All valid points though, I should have said "discused" rather than "torn to shreds".
It would be good to hear more points discusing the advantages of windows, looking at similar threads on windows user forums usually finds nothing but "linux is crap cus me mate ad it an it wos all typin an stuf". Looking back through this thread there have been quite a lot of posts from windows users, almost all of them have set folks off on the defensive of linux, same kind of responce just better informed.
Personally I hope windows dies out, the sooner the better, but the point about it being easier to use is to some degree true. Wizards for everything does make it easier to use when the wizards work, but when they don't, your screwed.
Almost all windows users get stuck in the "windows way", using the helpfull gui's for everything. Quite a lot have had to try and fix things behind that wall of helpfullness and seen the godawfull mess that's in there, so naturally linux sounds like their worst computer related nightmares.
Some have a look anyway and get a big suprise, its not all "error 00Ex0000000012F6 at 0x0FE43", its actually stuff made by human beings to be used by other human being, some of which might not have an f'ing clue whats going on. There is even humor back there.
SUSE, Redhat etc. can make things as friendly as they like for users, pasting on layer after layer of pretty interfaces to do every conceivable task. Its a good thing and coming from a linux background will result in distro's with far more points in the grandma test than windows can ever hope to score. It might make things feel very stale and redhat wayish but behind it all there will still be a system made to be used and understood.
Looking through the info panels here and on sites like distrowatch, its obvious how many users are not interested in having wizards and gui's for everything, slackware would be dead and buried, instead its one of the most popular distro's and getting bigger all the time and as for linux from scratch...
From my point of view, thanks to using linux I have an idea (all be it, a very small one) of what goes on to make my computer do its stuff, if I had stuck with windows I would probably know everything their is to know about computers and be happy in my ignorance.
Cheers,
Stan

Well, I'm a windoze hater from back there but when I first started using Linux, I had someone to tell me that doing things in command line was usually faster and more likely to fix whatever was wrong than a GUI. He also said, even though I thought he was nuts at the time, that I would prefer the command line one day. Well, now I use Gentoo and I suspect that I do 90% of everything in . . . . you guessed it, command line. It is just easier, faster and seems to work better.

Windoze has it's points I guess but since I know a good bit about puters, I prefer Linux. My bro uses windoze and because of some things I did he has not had to much trouble. All he does is play solitaire and check emails though. He never opens attachments unless I send them to him. IE and Outlook is off limits too. Seamonkey is his browser/email program.

I tell people about Linux. I have even installed it for people before to let them see it work. Then I let them decide what they want to use.

Later folks.

One thing I like about linux and not windows is that you don't have to pirate stuff to get them free

That sounds sort of like my wxPython experiences - except that with wxPython, I spent a bit more time on multiplatform testing.

My experiences with (again) wxPython for GUI development and python in general have been very positive. Typically, most interesting information is in one or two places - and nicely formatted as well.

Many people agree with you, that is why KDE, Gnome, and for that matter, X exist. Since there is no single entity controlling everything (like microsoft), there are competing standards. There are no huge hurdles to running KDE and Gnome based software at the same time.

Downloading an install cd image does not require an internet connection with unlimited traffic (it may be expensive if the ISP has a low limit and high charges). There exist alternatives. For ubuntu, see ShipIt for free CD(s) delivered to your door. If that is not what you want, they have other options listed. Also, since this is free software, you could pool your funds with other people located near you to have a single cd/dvd/whatever sent to you and then copy it - that is part of the point of free software.

I usually try to use the term piracy to describe murder/robbery/etc, not copyright infringement.

On the subject of copyright - I think that people and corporations should follow copyright law. People who want to use microsoft or other proprietary software should have to pay the $x00/yr for licenses. Corporations that want to use linux, GNU, or other GPL software should provide source code as specified in the license.

why should you pay so many dollars per year when proprietary software cost so much already

>> "Corporations that want to use linux, GNU, or other GPL software should provide source code as specified in the license."

but where will the motivations which is dearly(some say costly) practically to everyone on earth comes from in the future ... ?? ^_^


//i never thought that i'm actually hearing the word "must" ...

.

Well , I've gotta agree with every (or at least almost every) statement nmh+linuxquestions.o has made about linux Vs. Windows !

but let me reply to some points said previously By Evr
Yes , I do as well there are ppl who are phobic to the dark , heights , spiders , electricity , garlic and whatnot.
The point was that MS has been and still propagating misleading information about linux and/or other systems , in other words bill gates and C0 are lying.

Also ppl who aren't in command of the english language , should start learning it as soon as possible because in this globalized world speaking and understanding english has become a Must!
so saying that installing linux is difficult for non-english speaking ppl is simply not a valid excuse .
also noting that installing and using windows heavily requires understanding english as well
btw , I'm not speaking english by native.

Well this is totally un-acceptable ! (this reminds me of the :" you drink or die " type of situation.
the question is does the user have a choice at all?
90% of the computer market is dominated by MS , and almost every product (both software and hardware) are designed for win-compatibility , so linux users have a very tough time configuring their systems to use MS specifiec hardware and/or finding alternative linux software for their different uses..etc

YEs , indeed the cup has overflown ( in folklore saying) ppl are simply getting more and more annoyed by the "Bill gates Way" .

Fact summary about windows:
windows is overpriced.
^^ is a honeypot for hackers , script kiddies , spyware , malware , and every other S*** that rooms in the net waiting for an unknowing windows user to fire up his exploitable box.
^^ delibrately dis-advantages the non-MS OpenGL api for the favor of DirectX (though not saying DirectX is neccesarily bad!)
^^ has been coded by an insane number of programmers and reviewed by I dunnu how many MS-technicals (up to 100,000 employees are working on windows and/or around it), But still Windows is buggy , exploitable , insecure ..you know .

Did i forget a fact about WindoeZe ?? (feel free to add)

P.s I'd die to know what windows would look like if MS had only half of those "Mercenaries" LOL

Not a fact. That is an opinion!

There may be some truth in that statement, but that's certainly not an entirely unbiased report of a fact.

So it uses one language rather than another equally good one. So what? This makes precisely what difference to the end user?

Again not a fact. You may personally feel that the numbers are "insane", but that is nothing more than a personal opinion of yours. Definitely not a fact.

Strange title to find above a list that does not contain one single unbiased description of an objective and relevant fact. Definitely a misnomer.

Unfortunately, the question isn't about the quuality.They just able to fill the market with newer and newer versions. And remember, they produce tons of helper classes(even ugly ones) to increase production/development speed, not quality. As for quality - the only Microsoft product I like is MSVC2005 (it's useful, but, sadly isn't optimized at all. I still think this thing could run on 64mb RAM machine if someone just tried to do it...). Honestly, I don't remember any other products I liked. Ah, yeah, there is also DirectX 8.1 - 9.0. And WinAPI. But they aren't products, just API... As for MSVC, right now I'm trying to hack KDevelop - to fix some GUI problems and make it as useful, as MSVC was for me...

The problem is that some people are lazy (no offence, please) and Linux really forces people to think (which, of course good ). The first think I've got from Linux was a headache during the first week of use. I've been reading manuals and trying to get a clear picture of a systems. The amount of new information was owerewhelming...

Well, as I know, MS word allows exporting documents in older formats... And most of older application still can run on Windows..

Well, a note about GUI. I'm quite used to building GUI in windows (Borland VCL). From what I've seen so far in Linux, GUI here has one common problem - they contain a ton of small GUI-related bugs. Windows GUI interface are often better built (although sometimes they are uglier), and has less problems when uisng GUI without mouse. In many applications so far I've found a large number of GUI-related glitches (thunderbird e-Mail), I often was unable to switch focus from one part of window to another without using Mouse, often (that's personal preferences) GUI elements aren't properly anchored (i.e. when you resize window, controls in it doesn't move as expected). My version of KDevelop, for example, doesn't have an action (so I could bind a shortcut to it) to bring up a code window, to bring up a file explorer, etc. IMHO, right now GUIs on Linux often looks better, but also often doesn't provide full "normal" functionality (navigating all controls without mouse, easy switching from one control to another without a mouse, etc.). This is only my opinion, of course. Also I've noticed that GUI applications are generally bigger (in pixels), less compact, they often have unneeded spaces and really will work better on 1280x1024, not on my 1024x768. KTorrent, for example, is twice as large as Bittorrent, even if it has nearly identical interface. Of course, this can be tuned and changed...

I think there is a mistake/misunderstanding. Linux doesn't provide "Free of charge" software. (I think everyone here know phrase ""Free" as in "Freedom""). It just give you right to modify and share it...
I don't like piracy either, that's one of reasons, why I've installed Linux in the first time...

Well, thanks for the INFO. If Ubuntu can work without a constant internet updates, that's fine. But right now I'm happy with my Slackware 11 distribution and I'm not planning to install something else (maybe I'll try LFS someday, but not right now). If some of my friends will ask about Linux, I'll tell them to try Ubuntu, maybe It'll work. As for "Free CD" I really don't think they sending them world-wide for free. (Didn't found list of "supported" regions on their site...)

Excuuuse me! I've been working with DirectX since 2002, and now you're telling me this/API interface is really bad. Thanks, never knew it before. It certainly changes for worse in DirectX 10 (IMHO), but, did you ever tried DirectX 8.1/DirectX 9? It is certainly less flexible in some areas, doesn't support "rendering on anything", but it comes with fairly fixed amount of features, with solid interfaces to do anything you want. It's object-oriented, while OpenGL is not. It also provides much more than just a 3D renderer - it consists of several interfaces like DirectSound/DirectMusic/DirectPlay/DirectXFile/DirectSetup. And also it's very fast on Windows and allows (especially in 8.1 series) good low-level control as well as ability to debug 3D application using shaders on hardware without acceleration.
IMHO, DirectX is some of the best Microsoft achievments, and you are blaming it for nothing. Please tell me where DirectX is "worse" or "bad". Because right now I'm hearing an opinion, not a good emotion-less comparsion of two systems. (I certainly could compare both systems, but that's not the thread for this)

One thing about microsoft is they don't give you much of a choice, in the if you don't like it,don't buy it situation, most computers you buy come with windows so how could you not buy it, and they bundle their software together like WMP and IE

Just tell them you don't want a OS. Bundle or not they have to take it off if you don't want it.

Of course, I build my own. I think it is made better and of better components too.

I am not sure what this question is asking - could you please explain more. Who is losing what motivation?