And potentially using the information that they gather to twist it and use it against us--

I think this is a really serious matter that needs attention before it gains to much power.
You agree?

Just heard about this on the evening news.
This is not good-

https://secure.dslreports.com/showne...tap-Law-128527

That's too bad, I did use DDG ( Duck Duck Go ) occasionally along with google but if it's true,
then our privacy is at the mercy of our government's agency and the powers that be.

I remember a line from the movie A League of their Own. when Tom Hanks said "There's no crying in baseball"

Well, I guess we can say "There's no privacy on the internet" :/

Do you know PClinuxOS are there privacy groups (besides an attorney) out there that fight for stuff like this to be stopped?

Maybe writing a letter to the America Civil Liberties Union is a place to start?

To be honest, I really don't know. I've never done anything like that before. All I ever did was made comments about it. :/


Sorry...

A couple of things about this make me laugh:
The number of people saying "I just use Google for ***" as if, for some reason, only using a couple of services somehow protects them from any data gathering.
That it has been public knowledge (in the UK at least) since the 1980's that Echelon involved a collaboration whereby the US government spied upon citizens of the UK and the UK government spied upon citizens the US in and they passed each other the data so that they technically didn't breach their laws against spying on the populace*. It has also been public knowledge that the US used this information to gain the upper hand in bidding wars with European countries. Yet, somehow, everyone is now worried about the NSA.

The cat is out of the bag and we are already in police states. Short of bloody revolution (which I'm not advocating) there is no way back.


*(Canada, Australia and New Zeeland were involved but I'm attempting to simplify)

It's ok and thanks for your honesty.

If there is a way I'll post it.

Do you think, 273 that if enough (huge group of people) rally together to stand up and fight for our rights that there may be a way back?

It's high time for all of us within the data processing profession to start pushing lawmakers (no matter where in the world we happen to live ...) to realize the need for sensible laws that will help to curb these abuses ... and also to realize that our push for "(inter)national security" has backfired.

Lawmakers, like the public at large, don't know what the risks are and where the boundaries ought to be. We need to be the ones who are telling them.

Mark my words: there are two sides to every technological coin. One thing that's gonna happen is going to be a crime that makes the Lindbergh Baby kidnapping (and subsequent murder) seem like a cakewalk in the park. And I say this only because, well, "awful crimes" are one of the inevitable results of the new opportunities created by technological (r)evolutions. When that sh*t happens, your company just might rue the day it started to collect "all that data" without any serious thought to (a) who really had access to it, and (b) how else it could be used by someone who was not "nice."

Once again, just because something can be abused does not mean it will be or should be prevented at all from happening! As long as those services are not forced it is OK because you decide to accept those terms or not and you manage how much it goes even if you do. Also you forgot about upsides while thinking about downsides - that no-privacy theme is actually helpful when searching for someone you will never find without internet(unless you have friends in police, haxor community, government etc.) because of selfexplanatory reasons.

In all politeleness, Arcane, that is much too naïve a point-of-view to be acceptable public policy. I'm not talking about just "googling someone." (And, oddly enough, many sensitive public records are at least semi-protected.)

What I am specifically talking about is geolocation (GPS) data. Your phone knows exactly within fifteen feet where your daughter is, and where you are, and everyone on both of your contact-lists. And this information is being made promiscuously available, "for marketing reasons," to virtually everyone ... never mind the NSA. Look at the permissions that are asked-for by each Android app ... if it asks for something like location, as most do, it's doing something with it. Face it, you didn't look at the list, and if you did look you didn't have a choice. You spent no more time considering that, than you did at the page of gobbledygook with the "I Agree" button.

Do you even know what apps are on your phone, that were there when you bought it at the store, and are running by default? Once an app is started (and many are started automatically), it never stops. Notice how fast the battery runs down when the phone is supposed to be off and not-in-use. "It never occurs to you ..."

Look at a "Task Manager." (Install one on your phone if you don't have one.) Notice how many apps are running that you didn't know about. Kill them all. See they're gone. Now, in fifteen minutes or so, look again. Many of them are back. In an hour, even more. Did you know that? No. Did you consent to it? No. "Did it occur to you ...?" Probably not.

"The murderer was a closet pedophile, but no one knew that because he had no criminal record. He was simply a contract programmer, running marketing reports off of Hadoop. He had access to the data as part of his job. He knew where little Emily's bedroom was within 15 feet. He knew she was home alone, and that no one was in the house next door or across the street. He knew the area perfectly from Google Maps. He knew all this from the 'marketing data' routinely obtained by an enthusiastic and data-savvy supermarket chain . . . where he was an authorized $22-an-hour temporary employee, working completely within his level of access, merely doing (but, horribly misusing) his job. Nothing was ever 'hacked' nor 'hacked into.' 'It never occurred to' anyone within the supermarket company what else could be done with their 'marketing' data, by someone who legitimately had access to it all, right under their noses."

This is sensational, folks, but it is not sensationalistic. There is a terrible, unprecedented, intrinsic danger in these datasets, and in the way that they are promiscuously being gathered and disseminated, ostensibly for the best and most innocent of reasons ... "never mind the NSA." This is the dark side of this thing that we have allowed to be made, and yet it is the status-quo right now today. So, why should (once again ...) public policy only change after something totally horrible yet totally forseeable has actually occurred? Can't we get "Emily's Law" passed, ahead of time?

How on Earth could we all be crowing about our "national security," and utterly ignore this? If this isn't "national security" also, then what is? As I wrote last February, The NSA is the least of our worries.

???
There is so much wrong with that that it is not necessary for anyone to touch it.

Perhaps I do not want to be found, especially by undesirables. Why should your right to find me out-weigh my right to privacy?

Perhaps there is a reason for that?

Overstepping boundaries is never good, IMO-

Information in the hands of the one who is "not nice" is a great concern for many:-

1. If 'people in charge' would want you then you would already be under their surveillance. They have stuff average Joe's&Jane's can only be jealous about. If you have nothing to fear then you would not worry much about this downside. As long as you are nothing special they won't care about you. Paranoia is also mental disease.
2. "your right out-weight my right"? WTF? This is just ridiculous. As long as you are part of society this logic is flawed in it's core. There is no right violation - just compromise(s). Everyday we deal with this - we chose what rights we exchange for responsibilities and viceversa - we have to! That is how society works. Each of us are pieces of puzzle to make it whole and balanced.
3. You still control information flow even if it would be forced upon you. You decide what info to put there and how much. Some people just put basic stuff that everyone knows about them and use those websites like Skype.
4. That information might one day save you from trouble(s). This is upside. It is like saying we should not search for cure of cancer because then we would know how cancer works and would be victims of those who will force us to have it.