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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-25-2004, 10:05 AM   #1051
natalinasmpf
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Quote:
Originally posted by witeshark
yea reasonable. But Linux security works well only if updates are downloaded twice a week!
But thats only for your server right? In Windows, many of them were critical and needed a reboot.

At least it the updates don't install Orwellian "Thought Police" software onto your system like Microsoft does!

Its also unlikely that many would be able to gain full access over your box (ie. gain root access), just the server.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 12:42 PM   #1052
witeshark
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Lindows may be easier --but it exposes many of the very same security concerns that encouraged many to opt for Linux or Mac in the first place.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 02:20 PM   #1053
ricdave
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<<< Lindows may be easier --but it exposes many of the very same security concerns that encouraged many to opt for Linux or Mac in the first place. >>>

With regards to Lindows, could you cite some verifiable examples?
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:03 PM   #1054
Boneglorious
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
<<< for people who just want to be able to word process or surf the web. Linux and other Unix-like OSs are not for those people >>>

So, why in the hell not?
Because so many of those people complain that Linux is too hard and should be easier to use. Clearly, those people need an OS that is easier to use. I'm not attempting to be an "arbiter" or pass moral judgements on those people, I'm simply saying: if there are 2 products, one of which is exactly what you're looking for, and one of which is not, why not go with the one that is?

Quote:
Originally posted by natalinasmpf
Actually, it is.

Because you can be assured of less crashes, less errors. Linux word processors, IMO, far excel Windows processors.

Because Linux web browsers doesn't have spyware loopholes, browser hijacking by tying them to critical system files, that need root access to change anyway.

And those who surf the web might jump at a chance to host their own (amateur) web server.

"Hey, I have my own web domain! *shows off*"

So, you're wrong.

Linux is for EVERYBODY.
If you think properly-set up Macs experience a lot of crashes and errors, you're the unfortunate victim of misinformation (and slander against the Mac is certainly rampant). If, on the other hand, you're comparing Linux and Windows, you'll see this is an inappropriate response to my post, since I already aired my anti-Windows feelings. Whether or not Linux is for everybody (and I still contend that Macs are better for people who don't want to get under the hood), I suspect we can agree at least that Windows is for no one.

Last edited by Boneglorious; 01-25-2004 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:06 PM   #1055
natalinasmpf
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Linux is too hard to word process? There's something called KDE for the commandline shy. Oh it loads a bit faster too!

And its crashes less often. And has less loopholes.

Linux obviously is THE CHOICE. PERIOD.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:18 PM   #1056
Boneglorious
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Natalina: If your'e responding to my post, you'll see I never complained about Linux being too hard. However, many people complain that it is, and those people would be better served by a different OS.

I take issue with "it loads a bit faster", though. I first ran Windows XP on my computer, and it loaded in about 10 seconds, while RH9, which I'm now running, takes at least a minute.

Last edited by Boneglorious; 01-25-2004 at 03:20 PM.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:24 PM   #1057
vectordrake
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Re: Make Linux easier for the general population! Please.

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Parr
Why are things that should be so simple, so complicated on Linux...its times like this I find myself praing Window XP for its user friendlyness and no brainer installs.......


..........Make Linux easier by reinventing the way we interact with it.

**Together we can make a difference**


Anyone seen Mr Parr lately? Last post was in May. This thread just won't die!
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:27 PM   #1058
natalinasmpf
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Lazy is not the term for such people. Rather "narrow-minded people who tend to stick to stereotypes" would be the word. Laziness is actually a virtue. Ignorance isn't.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 03:45 PM   #1059
vectordrake
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I don't know what everyone else's benchmark is, but I am looking at it from a financially moral perspective. I got my first windows computer from a off-lease reseller. It was a P-133 with a registered copy of Windows 95B. It didn't come with a OS disk. When it crashed out finally, I was looking for a replacement. By that time, XP had been out for a while. It made little sense to buy '98 when I could get better. In eastern Canada, it still retailed for ~$150 as well. At that point I decided that I would get another machine as well. I was unable to afford a new machine so I got a used P-II 350. No OS, so I got introduced to Linux there. My options were to either pirate Windows (or get someone to copy their '95 disk for me, which was no longer supported for upgrades) or get a free OS. Morally, the choice was Linux. After a few distros, I settled on Debian, which served me well until I tried Mandrake 9.1 o another machine. By now, I am hooked (still consider myself a newbie, but hooked nonetheless).

We got a new computer with WinXP on it (I asked for Pro becaus eof the easier networking - read that as NOT AS CRIPPLED). After using both, I must say that they both have their advantages. The elusive Paul Parr did raise a good point with his question. Linux has a hard software installation. There have been many times that I have pulled the hair out of my bald head trying to install an app that wasn't in the repository of my distro (at the time, of course). I prefer it to Win, as a rule, though, but my wife is stuck on Win. She loves to use it (probably because I clean up all the crap left behind a few days on the internet). If software can be installed with ease, Linux will become much easier. Right now, its not always easy to install software (unless you stick to your distro's servers). Windows still takes more effort to maintain on a daily basis, though.

I was really just curoius about all the comparisons that have been made in the 1000+ posts this thread has had. Are you comparing your free OS to the paid-for one? Or are you comparing it to the pirated one?

Anyone who is just too lazy to use Linux for word processing and surfing the internet, obviously doesn't miss their money. I don't have enough to live like that. And, I value my time with my family too much to spend more of it looking for freeware and OSS versions of apps that I may need to use.

My $0.02...
 
Old 01-25-2004, 04:40 PM   #1060
sxa
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I don't know why anyone would touch Lindows, is a lousy attempt at mixing Windows and Linux, if you want some remotley similar to windows use Fedora with the KDE.. atleast then you get a stable OS...
 
Old 01-25-2004, 05:51 PM   #1061
witeshark
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
<<< Lindows may be easier --but it exposes many of the very same security concerns that encouraged many to opt for Linux or Mac in the first place. >>>

With regards to Lindows, could you cite some verifiable examples?
By default, Lindows runs the user of the system as root (and it even encourages the user to forgo setting up a root password during installation by labeling it as "optional"!), an unbelievably shortsighted decision that results in a Linux box which if cracked gives the outside new user root permissions. Obviously, as far is specific port vulnerabilities, this would depend on the individual box.

Last edited by witeshark; 01-25-2004 at 06:37 PM.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 06:17 PM   #1062
witeshark
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vectordrake:
(begin quote)
I was really just curious about all the comparisons that have been made in the 1000+ posts this thread has had. Are you comparing your free OS to the paid-for one? Or are you comparing it to the pirated one?

Anyone who is just too lazy to use Linux for word processing and surfing the Internet, obviously doesn't miss their money. I don't have enough to live like that. And, I value my time with my family too much to spend more of it looking for freeware and OSS versions of apps that I may need to use.
(end quote)
Obviously, my primary box is a Mac. Though I am still debugging, I was able to get a Red Hat 7.2 (Very old! Red Hat 9 is out now) for $US10. This seems like the best way to get Linux, find a book with good Linux CDs included. Truly free Linux is not quite a reality anymore, and Red Hat support will be gone soon. (Some I know will go with the Fedora project sometime after the end of Red Hat support.) Also it's important to know that the Red Hat kernel needs immediate updating to 7.6. In fact, perhaps all Linux needs that upgrade.

Last edited by witeshark; 01-25-2004 at 06:21 PM.
 
Old 01-25-2004, 07:00 PM   #1063
SciYro
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just should point out that if you fiddle with the kernel sources (delet them for replace them) amke sure ls -s /include/* doesent link to them, i knwo some distros use symlinks in the /include directoy to point to the kernel eharders but i hear that this wil be bad cuse the progrmas will them link against hearder that other programs werent and that makes erors here and there (jsut a warming for thsoe who plan to get new kernels) as far a linux goes i think it is pretty good, make menuconfig givs you help options wich realy helps out with making sleections, as far as the OS as a whole, just cuse people are to lazy to type, startx when tehy need to veiw a picture then complain to there suporrt place that the OS is broken, i think they are much better off in the real world(a black and white world were buratality and money rules all) of windows, me much prefer the wonderful dreamy land of linux, the terminals, the options, all the fun stuff that makes life actual worth living cuse we get a choice, in windwos the choice is made as small (like what color do you want the border?), in linux we can make our own borders if we realy wanted to, windows cuts people off as slaves just a bit past the pont were it wont feel like slavary when it is, linux and its wonderful colory dont cut no one off anyware, iether you learn or you fall and complain and die of frustration, but with the user willing to learn they can go on a wonderful journey thru there comuter, and will never realy want to go back to the windows slave land(the one thats black and white and the OS owns the user)
 
Old 01-26-2004, 07:45 AM   #1064
sxa
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Quote:
Originally posted by witeshark
By default, Lindows runs the user of the system as root (and it even encourages the user to forgo setting up a root password during installation by labeling it as "optional"!), an unbelievably shortsighted decision that results in a Linux box which if cracked gives the outside new user root permissions. Obviously, as far is specific port vulnerabilities, this would depend on the individual box.
Another thing that kind of prooves my point, Lindows is not real linux, its a wannabe for M$ Freaks...
 
Old 01-26-2004, 04:56 PM   #1065
vectordrake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SciYro
in windwos the choice is made as small (like what color do you want the border?)
That is, if you can find the setting! Every version of that OS seems to be crippling or hiding even the fun and easy stuff too
 
  


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