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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2004, 09:19 AM   #1036
Boneglorious
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These are certainly leading responses...


Wait a minute, where's the poll choice "I'm a newbie and yet I don't want Linux to turn into Windows?" You don't have to be experienced to see the beauty of Linux.

The fact is, pre-OS X Mac OS already exists for people who don't want to know about computers, for people who just want to be able to word process or surf the web. Linux and other Unix-like OSs are not for those people, and they don't need to feel left out because of it, they just need to stick with Mac. (I don't consider Windows to be a choice for anyone except people who actually hate computers and wish to have their hatred justified.)
 
Old 01-23-2004, 09:23 AM   #1037
baldy3105
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Chinaman,

I just re-read my post above and it sounded rude wasn't meant that way - sorry.

While I think that Linux should become easier in the ways described above I would never advocate that it should lose the flexibility it offers for poeple who want to climb under the bonnet, simply that it should be possible to use it without climbing under the bonnet if you don't want to.

Its like I don't go under the bonnet of my car nowadays. In the days of carburetors and points I could fix and maintain my own engines. Nowadays things are so complex that I don't have the expertise to go anywhere near the engine management and have no time or inclination to aquire it. I just want the thing to go from a to b reliably with occasional input from an expert to keep it in shape.

Now this doesn't mean I think others shouldn't tinker with their cars i.e. get them rechipped and install a turbo, just that I should not have to do these thing just to make the thing work when I just bought the bloody thing .

In this scenario Windows is like those engines that use special security bolts on the engine so that you couldn't work on it if you wanted to and for which you can't buy spare parts. I disagree with this practice as well, its your car, you can do whatever you like to it.

But if, just to get the thing running in the first place, I had to understand the inner workings of the engine management system and have to program the fuel-air mixture by hand, and set the engine timing up by collecting info from half a dozen forum posts and work out whcih bits are relevant by trial and error I would drive it into the nearest lake (well push it as the b*****rd wouldn't run) and buy something that worked.

This is sad because it means putting my money into a company who's business philosophies I disagree with, but what choice do I have?

I understand your argument that you should buy something that says "Linux Compatible" on the box, but really if microsoft can work out a standardised simple method of adding hardware drivers I'm sure the Linux community can do it better.

They can, and will, those guru's who want it to stay difficult will simply have to occupy the kit-car builders niche, we'll still all be very impressed!

Last edited by baldy3105; 01-23-2004 at 09:28 AM.
 
Old 01-23-2004, 09:34 AM   #1038
baldy3105
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Having said that, I'd be happy with the complicated method, I just want the complicated method to work as described. I've go no problem compiling drivers to work on my system, but I would like the end result to actually work!
 
Old 01-23-2004, 09:49 AM   #1039
Netizen
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Quote:
Originally posted by baldy3105
I understand your argument that you should buy something that says "Linux Compatible" on the box, but really if microsoft can work out a standardised simple method of adding hardware drivers I'm sure the Linux community can do it better.
I believe Microsoft has a lot of hardware drivers because of the simple motivation of money and business. Billions of dollars is a huge incentive to develop drivers for Microsoft products. Unfortunately I don't see this changing any time soon. Those hardware companies that want the sure thing money are going to develop for Microsoft first and the rest of us second, if at all. Simple business. Linux survives on its community. And right now the people screaming "I want I want", far out weigh the coding community developing drivers. And unfortunately everyone has to live, so if the coders can satisfy their monetary obligations by coding for linux they will, otherwise it will take a backseat.

The best thing about Linux is, if you want something better, code it, everything is there for you to do it, nothing is stopping you. If you want something better from Microsoft, you have to wait until corporate America is ready to give it to you. Everyone wants better, but if you want an easier version of Linux, get out there and code a new version or "improvements". And if your not a programmer, it doesn't matter. Just pick up some books and learn. All you need is a desire to make things better, thats how this whole thing started.

Netizen
 
Old 01-23-2004, 12:46 PM   #1040
witeshark
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No OS platform that matters will ever stand still --especially Linux! That's what open source is all about!
 
Old 01-23-2004, 04:37 PM   #1041
sxa
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The wonderful thing about linux is you can make is very very easy.. and still there will be the chances for linux gurus to do things the "hard way"
 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:02 PM   #1042
hollerith
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Apple is twenty years old. The first GUI. Aaaah, the little beige bread bin with the tiny five inch monitor. Hypercards! Macintosh IIe. Isn't it marvelous. Make Linux easier? I don't know. BTW: Anyone know where the 'cluster setup wizard' is in Red Hat 9.0?
 
Old 01-24-2004, 10:22 PM   #1043
ricdave
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<<< for people who just want to be able to word process or surf the web. Linux and other Unix-like OSs are not for those people >>>

So, why in the hell not?
 
Old 01-24-2004, 10:23 PM   #1044
ricdave
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<<< for people who just want to be able to word process or surf the web. Linux and other Unix-like OSs are not for those people >>>

And just who died and made you the arbiter of what is for who and what isn't?
 
Old 01-24-2004, 10:25 PM   #1045
ricdave
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<<< While I think that Linux should become easier in the ways described above I would never advocate that it should lose the flexibility it offers for poeple who want to climb under the bonnet, simply that it should be possible to use it without climbing under the bonnet if you don't want to. >>>

Good Post!
 
Old 01-24-2004, 10:27 PM   #1046
ricdave
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<<< Apple is twenty years old. The first GUI. >>>

I thought that CDE was the first GUI. I could be wrong.
 
Old 01-24-2004, 11:17 PM   #1047
natalinasmpf
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Quote:
<<< for people who just want to be able to word process or surf the web. Linux and other Unix-like OSs are not for those people >>>
Actually, it is.

Because you can be assured of less crashes, less errors. Linux word processors, IMO, far excel Windows processors.

Because Linux web browsers doesn't have spyware loopholes, browser hijacking by tying them to critical system files, that need root access to change anyway.

And those who surf the web might jump at a chance to host their own (amateur) web server.

"Hey, I have my own web domain! *shows off*"

So, you're wrong.

Linux is for EVERYBODY.
 
Old 01-24-2004, 11:29 PM   #1048
nightjar
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natalinasmpf said wise words
:|
 
Old 01-24-2004, 11:32 PM   #1049
witeshark
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Quote:
Originally posted by natalinasmpf
Actually, it is.

Because you can be assured of less crashes, less errors. Linux word processors, IMO, far excel Windows processors.

Because Linux web browsers doesn't have spy-ware loopholes, browser hijacking by tying them to critical system files, that need root access to change anyway.

And those who surf the web might jump at a chance to host their own (amateur) web server.

"Hey, I have my own web domain! *shows off*"

So, you're wrong.

Linux is for EVERYBODY.
yea reasonable. But Linux security works well only if updates are downloaded twice a week! I was wondering why!!! So I looked into it and I found that the mysterious motive for *hacing* Linux boxes is to obtain a hack launch platform to conceal the haxors real IP/box etc. My experience in doz was never like that, so a simple firewall killed all the hits on my box flat out... heh things change! But true enough -- the Linux browsers are far less ad-spyware susceptible! spy ware! F off!
 
Old 01-25-2004, 09:58 AM   #1050
Pres
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I remember learning to use a knife known as the balisong, a fighting knife. In learning to open and close this knife with flourish I cut my fingers, usually deep cuts, hundreds of times. All this time I could have, for example, just used a flick knife. See the parallel ?

Maybe you should start looking into "Lindows" if you want linux easy, and don't forget that the price you pay for "easy" is complexity and choices being made for you. Some don't mind doing things the hard way as long as things are kept simple and free.
 
  


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