There is no physical reason we need to be in this crazy economic mess. I say the biggest driving factor for the mess we have now it the money system and so called free trade without "free labor". The solution to me is a world wide minimum wage practice. This can be driven even by individual countries that put up a charitable tariff that draws from the difference in the wage paid to foreign workers and the countries minimum wage. Give it back to them (likely as a community) with charity programs that all can agree will be a help there. Different environments can cause different basic needs, at the minimum. Beyond that, if humans are to have higher standards of living, automation is going to be a big part of it. Cultivationally, it will be intensive; even if the resources are not that much. Such enhancements in standards also favor those who need special help do to health problems. Giving them a viable way to function in our cultures. So what may be considered a minimum requirement for an individual in a culture can vary a lot.

If you say it's all because of the energy and environmental impacts, I'll say that it in more of because of our ignorance. There is more geothermal energy in the core of this earth that we could likely ever use before the Sun becomes a giant red star and swallows up the planet. [I'm getting hundreds of trillions of years for a one degree drop in temperature at our present fossil fuel rate. Maybe humanity could use it to launch themselves into space an orbit at a greater distance. Then come back after it all over for the Sun and the surface of the earth cools enough to be a solid surface again.]

Perhaps the simplist way to note what is likely possible in an economy is to note money as having basically two different things it represents. Cultivation that puts resources into the system and cultivation of the resource. If the resource is available in the 'environment' for a job then there is no inherent limitation there for doing it. If there is a lack of "funds" in the cultivational form. If people are able to do the job then it is quite possible. One just needs a decent record system to keep track of the IOUs. One might note that the Federal Reserve Note is basically a type of IOU.

Sincerely, Gregory D. MELLOTT

Bah. You're all idiots. It's probably lupus, it's always probably lupus.

Sincerely, Gregory HOUSE (MD)








Sorry

It is the interest (or debt) - not the IOUs.
There is no way for an ever continuing exponential growth in nature or society.
It is that simple.
Making more money from just having money - without actually doing something (creating _some_ value/doing some work) is called "usury" I guess.
Money is supposed and said to be a representation of value (of work for instance) - not a value by itself.
It needs to flow - not generate debt. (banks can - and do - create money; out of thin air...)

... you know: the saying about robbing a bank vs. founding one...

Can't. There are no jobs, so consumers aren't spending. Consumers aren't spending cause they have no money. There is no money because consumers are losing jobs. Are we seeing a pattern here?


Yet the guys on the stock market are appealing to us to just spend the last of our money. Right, and then what? There no thought of the future. Just one last quick profit.


Anyways, here is one banker unlike the rest that looks respectable, and is correct: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8293981.stm

"It is the interest (or debt) - not the IOUs."

No doubt that can be a big factor in the problem. Usually it only generates an acceptable amount of inflation. The banking system sees it as necessary in order to eat the failures it sees.

I was only mentioning IOUs as it relates to the Federal Reserve Note to help people see that ans IOU system in not that impossible to do. Ideally, though, people could have more detailed records that would allow for detailed reanalysis and adjusting to what benefit reality actually generates.

The oil, coal industries should not run scared at the idea of geothermal development. Coal can make a 'char' when processed that is mainly carbon. Carbon composite materials have a high value presently. They do not rot or burn readily and are 10 times stronger than steel by weight. I suspect the oil would be the cheapest way to supply other factors that are needed to form it into the final product. The military is fond of it. Carbon composite vehicles have been proposed for quite a while now. I'd say it may make an ideal material to build with when one has to deal with a very wet, or a fire hazard generating environment. Rodents would also probably have harder time generating a way to make a home in your walls also. I'm all for nature, where it belongs.

Sincerely, Gregory D. MELLOTT

acceptable - hmm
x% per annum _is_ - however low it seems - still exponential.
Impossible for any economy.

No comment on: "The banking system sees it as necessary in order to..." except for: ...yeah right - whatever...

...anyway:

I'm now quite sure that I have no idea what you where/are getting at.
It seems I misunderstood the first post completely and can't get any further with the latest...


rather rhethorical:
Aren't we not only living in it but being part of it?
How, then, could it "not belong"?

We lost a young music teacher from our local school to Hanta Virus a few years back. Her daughter nearly died also. A lot of kids were pretty saddened by it incident. It is spread by Deer Mice. I guess she had cleaned up an old mouse nest* in her cabin and caught it that way. They say to use PLENTY of Chlorox in some water and let things get saturated for a while first. It will actually foam up a bit and release some heat as it reacts. The Chlorox fumes, when cleaning, can be hard on your lung also, so don't watch too close. Though Chlorox usually doesn't kill you.

Hanta Virus usually gives one some symptoms like a bad backache and weakness or flu like symptoms a week or so before it piles into your lungs and effectively drowns you. There is no simple cure, once it gets that far along, they say. So get to the Doc early. I like my grapefruit seed extract (GSE) and salt [10 drop to a tablespoon) when I start feeling rough, though. One just nips on it as needed. For me, it can help a belly bug within minutes. (And congested lungs some also.) When your throat starts getting irritated with no mucus, you usually have the bug down and may be getting a bit too much GSE. Keep the dose to a minimum, or your immune system may never really get on the job properly.
Sincerely, Gregory D. MELLOTT

* The doc had a magazine in his office that said somone had even caught Hanta Virus from just breathing the air in an old car [assumably relatively air tight before it was opened) that mice had ~infested~. The bug is passed with their body waste.

Woohoo!!! We are the nation with the most debt! Now we FINALLY have something to REALLY brag about. USA is FINALLY #1 in something, legitimately! And China owns our asses now, better start learning Mandarin! Ni hao ma! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8296079.stm

Two words:

Death Spiral.

It is too late. We are past a tipping point. There is no will in this country to solve the problems, so they won't be solved. If there was someone bigger, who could force us to solve them, then we would undergo the wrenching adjustments and eventually emerge at least healthy, if reduced considerably in size.

But there is no one who is big enough to force the US to do anything. So we are going to crash and burn.

The "eco" stuff they're pulling now is just so they can tax the very air you breathe (not inhaling as was predicted many times, but exhaling). Don't worry sheeple, you will live to see the air you breathe taxed ... mark my words.

And you shouldn't worry too much about the future economy or any politics or any of that ... sources suggest that Sauron's armies have amassed, they stretch as far as the eye can see, and they begin to march on middle earth. There's not much time left, and Frodo and Sam seem to have chickened out or died along the way or submitted to the ring ... oh well, I guess you know what's coming, one ring to rule them all. The only way Sauron can lose is like in LOTR, through some freak accident where in the mad struggle for power they f'k it all up and destroy the power ... that's probably the only hope now.

The "ECO" slump is what the Federal Reserve Bank is driving for.

If you want to pull out of the "ECO" slump, vote kick the Federal Reserve Bank.

This only applies to USA, though. The rest of the world is gunna have to do the same, but I dare say, thus adorning flame suit -- that anybody else doesn't have the nuts to be as cruel and callous as us, to destroy something someone worked so hard on, for such a long period of time, simply by saying, "You're not popular anymore, gtfo of the stage."

Always look on the bright side of life...dedum...dedum...dedumdedumdedum.

"And always look on the bright side of death...Just before you draw your terminal breath."

To me life and freedom are one and the same, if you are not free then you are not alive. Yes, the world is full of the undead.

I must drink my glass of group O before it clots.