Well, My dad was born in 1905 in Cork, and was in an excellent position to view the struggle for Independence there, but he never joined Sinn Féin or tried to radicalise his kids. He was under the Official Secrets Act like any senior Civil Servant. Like most others, he was just glad it was over. I certainly think contemporaneous accounts are best, and a couple are even better. We can get news from several sources and become an 'expert' on a subject. Back 100 years, it was personal experience and what you heard. But it was strange, in retrospect, that it was only mentioned so little by those who knew.

BTW I have not recanted on post #1 which tries to set out stuff in an unbiased way. You never see your own bias, do you?

My bias? I have none. I am the only one perfect in the whole galaxy. Thats why I accept others are not perfect. It help me giving the absolution when other makes mistakes and make me strong to help them thinking and doing the right thing (a bit of laugh in this ;-)

You make me smile.

Recently, there's been a couple of useful TV things. This year was 100 years from Independence, and one of the interesting things was a view of things from the British perspective, presumably drawing on the Government Archives. The 'Michael Collins' movie with Liam Neeson wasn't actually too bad, except it understated British superiority. I felt the thing that swung it was American Influence; they lost the publicity war, because they couldn't cow people by committing atrocities until people gave up the rebels. People knew you signed your own death warrant informing; also, An Ṗoblaċt (now An Phoblacht) the Republican paper detailed all the trouble and as Irish Americans were a powerful lobby, it made Britain look bad.

An uprising happened in the Boer War 1898-1901 in South Africa, but South Africa didn't have a voice to the world. Atrocities went unnoticed.

Another one thrown up on a farming show here

Ireland, which grows a lot of potatoes, used to buy seed potatoes from Scotland. Being in the North, it's quite free of diseases inherent to potatoes. Now it's outside the EU. So in coming years, seed potatoes in the NOI and Donegal can supply the rest and into Europe, as Irish seed is more disease free than Eurpoean stock, because some diseases never made the jump over here.

This link https://www.mail.com/int/news/uk/106...-stage-hero1-6 kind of well sums up how quickly this thing up North can go pear shaped.

Usually, the Irish North & South have enough common sense to avoid trouble. There have been scores of smaller spats, a few failed attempts at peace before, and the smart ones know the cost of saying the wrong thing. OTOH, extremists on both sides purposely tread on the other side's corns, but that can't be avoided. But when the NOI gets affected by British or EU politics, as at present, that's when things go pear shaped.

This https://www.mail.com/int/scitech/hea...-stage-hero1-6 is a fairly good explanation of the current Northern violence, with one exception, which I shall mention next.

I was driven through the middle of Belfast early one Sunday morning in the 1970s by a local who pointed out the territorial areas of the Provisional & Official IRA, the UDA, & the UVF. These divisions were largely along side streets. I'm sure my guide chose a fairly divided area but during the troubles, it was a turf war. For instance, The (Protestant/Loyalist) Shankhill Road is a main trunk road in Belfast and runs parallel to the (Catholic/Nationalist) Falls Road. All the trouble starts at these invisible divisions. I recognized the street names from the news reports. This time the Protestants are starting trouble, and will head for Catholic areas. The Catholic youths will come out to protect their area. The police are stuck in the middle.

For now, It's the older Loyalists encouraging this. Many have heavy prison sentences waiting for them. But it's so easy to see this getting out of hand and returning to the situation before. If those 'Loyalist' youths get through into a Catholic area, 'Republican' houses will be torched, people stoned etc. Guaranteed escalation there the next night… then everyone will then re-arm, and the very hard-won peace will be squandered. The NOI politicians are elected are from the two extremes, so there's nobody who will be listened to by the opposing viewpoint; that was key to the Peace of 1998, because (the late) John Hume put his huge reputation behind this peace effort. Folks may not have agreed with his views, but they would listen because of his peaceful record. The current leaders could preach only to their respective and bitterly opposed choirs.

If it all goes sadly wrong in the North of Ireland, Brexit, or the handling of it, will be the cause. I started this thread some months back because I could foresee trouble. I must be honest, I didn't foresee it getting this bad. But in 23 years, a generation of peacemakers has gone, more have come, and the new ones don't seem to have a clue.

If I mention the ones who were parties to the Agreement in 1998, they all seem like historical figures: Ian Paisley; David Trimble; John Hume; The Alliance Party (John Alderdice?); Bertie Ahern; Tony Blair; Gerry Adams; Martin McGuinness; Bill Clinton, and George Mitchell. Who has the stature to pick up the pieces now? Our ROI politicians are fairly clued in on the sensitivities, but they have no long record of sensitive action and would hardly be seen as neutral.

Seems I am alone on this thread, but I'll post this good summary 4 full months after the exit.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56899831 which should be accessible in most jurisdictions

EDIT: The nightly trouble at Belfast's intersections seems to have eased. It's a bit speculative to try reading the entrails, but I believe the death of the Duke of Edinburgh was a factor. It had been fomented by older 'Loyalist' elements goading younger ones. These older ones in the main had long sentences commuted conditional on their behaviour. They went dangerously close to the edge. But after Prince Philip died, both young & old lost the stomach for a struggle. Brexit issues seem to have receded as a catalyst - for now.

Now, this Brexit "Northern Ireland Protocol" has taken it's first casualty.

NOI's Arlene Foster stepped down yesterday, announcing dates for resignation from various roles after a letter was signed by ¾ of her colleagues demanding just that.

The NOI Assembly (the NOI arguing shop & rule-making body) was closed for 3 years because the Sinn Féin pulled the rug from under it over her botched handling of some scheme. Her party stood behind her. Now, about 1 year after the Assembly got up & running again, she has been fired for not being hard lined enough. It's just the tip of an iceberg.

The problem is the NOI protocol. The NOI is effectively in the EU, and unrepresented there; The ROI is actually in the EU; Britain is outside, and diverging in necessary ways. Borders are inevitable, but any border post in Ireland becomes a flashpoint. So by necessity, a border exists on the British side of the Irish Sea, dividing Ireland and Britain. As far as the UK PM seems to be concerned, the NOI is a nuisance he doesn't want to know about, it seems. The NOI have got no speeches, no visits, no assurances from him, and any Conservative election candidates lose their deposits.

So NOI (political) 'unionists' and more militant loyalists rightly imho perceive a distance growing between Ireland and England they can do nothing about. The NOI parties have 12 votes between them in Westminster, but Boris has a majority of 80! Arlene Foster was seen as 'too soft' and even tried to sell this NOI protocol as a good thing, giving them the benefits of being 'in & out' of the EU. In fact, they are IN the EU and a border has gone up between them and the UK, a Unionist nightmare.

Police have a very good handle on the (smaller) Loyalist outfits, so the detection rate would be high if they started up again. More than one of them were shut down by finding the pub they met in, and arresting the lot while they were meeting. Or else the IRA bombed the place without warning.

A thorough explanation of the Northern Ireland Protocol here https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53724381

This time it's sausages, & all meats because a 6 month exemption by the EU is running out. At the same time, the new Unionist leader is jumping up and down and saying the EU protocol has to go altogether. No chance of that happening. The EU will not budge on this, so heads may roll in the UK, but the North of Ireland will probably end up buying Irish sausages, etc. if they want them. Boy, will that hurt!

If the North of Ireland protocol goes, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

Why? Are Irish sausages bad to eat?

Oh yes. This is like the Whiskey. Too old! They should throw it away. All what is done in the south is a calamity for humans and is against my good uneducated bigot stobburn mindset. And more: the south are part of the EU and was before a colony from the UK usefull for potatoes delivery, wooden supply and human workers. The South is a bit like Ukraine or Bielarussia or Lettland for Russia: this is part of the UK territorial history.
Perhaps ask the germans how to build a wall for separation of north and south: they know how to build it (unfortunately it dont stay for very long; a better plan would be the border of EU would be at the island border or UK to invade south-ireland for recovery of the colonial history).
Finally (per haps explained in more sensible words): in order to battle against the sausage invasion, against the continuous destabilization attempts from EU, in order to protect the local human population from the terrible EU aliens, north-ireland and UK should make the annexion of south-ireland (like Ukraine and Crim and Lettland and ... from Russia).
It looks like a robust plan for me.
(just for the moderator: hopefully you will accept the ironic and stupid post from me above).

For the record, Irish sausages are produced under more regulated conditions and are if anything a safer product. Sausages are not good food.

@hazel: What's behind this is that Protestant Unionists see themselves as 100% British, still refer to the ROI as the 'Free State' (a title from when we were a Commonwealth member, which ended from 1949). So it pains them to have to buy foreign sausages from the ROI because their British ones are not available. It underlines that they're not 100% British living in Britain.

@floppy_stuttgart: I was worrying for your well being until you pointed out your whole post was B.S. If you're going to do a good ironic post, however, improve your focus.

Older whiskey is actually preferred, and 20-40 year old whiskies sell for serious money. Here anyhow, whiskies are kept in bonded warehouses. The trick is: The distillers distill until nearly pure alcohol, then put the product to age in oak barrels. When they are withdrawn from the bonded warehouse 10-20 years later, they pay tax on the alcohol. Then it's diluted down to 40%, and sold.

The Irish & UK politicians pretend to be grown up and studiously avoid mention of an embarrassing details like a colonial past. Each has their own reasons. We don't invite the British to our nationalistic celebrations, just as they don't invite us to their memorials of colonial conquest, if they have such. Festivals here are just a good excuse for a booze-up anyhow.

Thanks for you carrying attitude. Me reading "Fluide Glacial" and "Charlie Hebdo" at an early age, this is clear my brain is now having its own way of life. I just have to accept, it start sometime a topic in a weird direction. But my brain want to show possible scenario thinking of other brain (for my brain, its ironic, for other brains perhaps not).

Aren't they everywhere.....

No, it sounds like you're an eccentric, in a weird sort of way.

To grasp the idea of eccentricity, imagine a bicycle or wheelbarrow wheel where the centre isn't dead centre. So you often approach things differently, want different things.

I'd go easy on the illegal substances, floppy_stuttgart