LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 12-28-2019, 12:28 PM   #76
Geist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2013
Distribution: Slackware 14 / current
Posts: 267

Rep: Reputation: Disabled

Mhhh blue light, gimme that good good blue light while I eat a sandwich with a thick layer of spiced lard on it, mh mh mhhhh.

Fats are unhealthy, fats are healthy, fats are unhealthy, fats are healthy, etc.
No, fats are delicious. Nom nom nom.

The blue light is going be just like that, I'm sure.

Last edited by Geist; 12-28-2019 at 12:30 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2019, 01:52 PM   #77
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,575

Rep: Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637
Yeah fats are unhealthy or so said the Sugar Barons who kinda had a vested interest in perpetrating and perpetuating that myth. Isn't it interesting that the Dairy Industry pays farmers for milk where the price paid is based on milk fat concentration... more fat, more money. Take out the fat and we get "cardboard" which can (imagine that) be made palatable with big, heaping batches of refined sugar.
 
Old 12-28-2019, 02:15 PM   #78
rigor
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 297

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post

. . .

Most cellphones transmit radio frequencies at just under 4 watts. Microwave ovens average around 1,000 watts, or 250 times as powerful. The FCC limits commercial radio stations to 50,000 watts in the US but some broadcast into the US from Mexico are 500,000 watts and one in Luxembourg is 25,000 and another in the Netherlands is 500,000. Seriously, 4 watts no matter how close to your face is insignificant by comparison to what is all around us.
The microwave energy is intended to be contained, in a manner akin to a Faraday cage. Quite often, plenty of people would be a substantial distance from the transmitting antenna of a radio station. Since the intensity of the energy exposure from radio waves drops with increasing distance from the source, contrasting the energy levels at two substantially different distances from the different sources, is not appropriate, e.g. being a substantial distance from the antenna for a radio station, while being within a few feet of the transmitting antenna of a cell phone.

Also, in general, it would be nice if evaluating the potential for causing cancer, or other medical problems, were simple. For Cancer, I believe it would generally be things such as damaged growth activators, and damaged cell death mechanisms. But in some ways, it's not quite that simple. Or perhaps it should be said, that the circumstances that could result in such things, are not necessarily simple to know. Although a sibling of mine would not necessarily be expected to have genetics identical to mine, the genetics would be expected to be somewhat similar. Yet, what actually happened within my family, is that two siblings lived in the same environment; the two siblings ate the same food, drank the same, water, etc. One of them got cancer, the other didn't.

I would suggest that ultimately, with the World in which we live, about all we can try to do is look at potential risks, and juxtapose them with various factors in our own lives. Especially since, unless a particular person happens to work in a profession, where they can easily examine the raw data and methodology of a given study for themselves, we often might only see someone else's interpretation of the raw data, might not get all the details of the methodology. Even if we try to get such things, there can be monetary costs associated with such an attempt. Heck, in the U.S. if I wish to get a copy for myself of my own medical records, I would generally be expected to pay money for that. Even though according to laws governing ownership of items that are custom "manufactured" for a particular individual, since in one way or another, even if I did so by providing "insurance" which paid for associated tests, I provided payment for the initial creation of records of data that are entirely specific to me. So strictly speaking, I should be considered to be the owner of the original records.

To me it seems as if we tend to be somewhat stuck, looking at plenty of things indirectly.
 
Old 12-29-2019, 12:40 AM   #79
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,575

Rep: Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigor View Post
The microwave energy is intended to be contained, in a manner akin to a Faraday cage. Quite often, plenty of people would be a substantial distance from the transmitting antenna of a radio station. Since the intensity of the energy exposure from radio waves drops with increasing distance from the source, contrasting the energy levels at two substantially different distances from the different sources, is not appropriate, e.g. being a substantial distance from the antenna for a radio station, while being within a few feet of the transmitting antenna of a cell phone.
While that is quite true when we are talking about a source of 50,000 watts, a signal strength still measuring 10s of 1000s of watts extends for many miles. The distance at which it drops to the 4 watt level of cellphones is many hundreds of miles. The bottom line is that cellphone contribution is essentially akin to "spitting in the ocean".

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigor View Post
Also, in general, it would be nice if evaluating the potential for causing cancer, or other medical problems, were simple. For Cancer, I believe it would generally be things such as damaged growth activators, and damaged cell death mechanisms. But in some ways, it's not quite that simple. Or perhaps it should be said, that the circumstances that could result in such things, are not necessarily simple to know. Although a sibling of mine would not necessarily be expected to have genetics identical to mine, the genetics would be expected to be somewhat similar. Yet, what actually happened within my family, is that two siblings lived in the same environment; the two siblings ate the same food, drank the same, water, etc. One of them got cancer, the other didn't.
It is certainly true that cause and effect on disease or even physical harm is a nebulous territory and rarely ever simple. Set and setting rarely are. This is one of the reasons that health guidelines are so general and conservative. It's an effort to estimate the lowest possible risk for the highest susceptibility. However, again, the degree of radio exposure from a cellphone is so low especially compared to the ocean of transmissions we are all constantly immersed in makes it utterly insignificant. Hand held "walkie-talkies" had roughly the same power as a cell phone and I would expect that being in use since 1937 we would have seen cancers by now if that was a risk. Seems like an acceptable level of risk to me.
 
Old 12-29-2019, 10:17 AM   #80
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,542

Rep: Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Thankfully nobody lives within even 100 meters of my home but can you explain the mechanism of wireless access to a wired keyboard?
I guess this is about the TEMPEST stuff:
Quote:
Recent research[21] has shown it is possible to detect the radiation corresponding to a keypress event from not only wireless (radio) keyboards, but also from traditional wired keyboards, and even from laptop keyboards.

EDIT: oh, the above is quite redundant since I completely missed the second page of this thread, oops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I do actually sometimes use my laptop on my lap... not often but not from fear of any health issues beyond carpal tunnel.
I find using a laptop without an external keyboard and/or monitor (nevermind if it's on my lap or not) does horrible things to my spine.

Last edited by ntubski; 12-29-2019 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Just noticed the second page of this thread.
 
Old 12-29-2019, 11:40 AM   #81
ChuangTzu
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2015
Location: Where ever needed
Distribution: Slackware/Salix while testing others
Posts: 1,557

Rep: Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
While that is quite true when we are talking about a source of 50,000 watts, a signal strength still measuring 10s of 1000s of watts extends for many miles. The distance at which it drops to the 4 watt level of cellphones is many hundreds of miles. The bottom line is that cellphone contribution is essentially akin to "spitting in the ocean".
The reality is they do not know how harmful the exposure may be, evidence has been shown for and against, however as you will see in 2004 (keep in mind cell phones were much weaker then as well) the consensus was that
Quote:
"...There have also been studies of mobile telephone users, particularly on brain tumors and less often on other cancers and on symptoms. Results of these studies to date give no consistent or convincing evidence of a causal relation between RF exposure and any adverse health effect. On the other hand, the studies have too many deficiencies to rule out an association. A key concern across all studies is the quality of assessment of RF exposure. Despite the ubiquity of new technologies using RFs, little is known about population exposure from RF sources and even less about the relative importance of different sources. Other cautions are that mobile phone studies to date have been able to address only relatively short lag periods, that almost no data are available on the consequences of childhood exposure, and that published data largely concentrate on a small number of outcomes, especially brain tumor and leukemia..."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253668/

Quote:
-- Radio emissions. A slew of studies have linked breast cancer with men and women working as radio operators, electricians, telephone repair people and other jobs involving exposure to electromagnetic radiation.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...roops/1608293/

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It is certainly true that cause and effect on disease or even physical harm is a nebulous territory and rarely ever simple. Set and setting rarely are. This is one of the reasons that health guidelines are so general and conservative. It's an effort to estimate the lowest possible risk for the highest susceptibility. However, again, the degree of radio exposure from a cellphone is so low especially compared to the ocean of transmissions we are all constantly immersed in makes it utterly insignificant. Hand held "walkie-talkies" had roughly the same power as a cell phone and I would expect that being in use since 1937 we would have seen cancers by now if that was a risk. Seems like an acceptable level of risk to me.
Keep in mind that rarely were those walkie talkies held directly against the head/close to the brain. Also, Police and Military do require restrictions on the length of use of those "radios" to minimize risk. Also there is an increase correlation with exposure to RF/EMF and higher mortality rates, this is one reason why those in the "Nuclear/Radiological Medicine" departments typically have higher mortality rates in the Medical field. Also, why they are offered generous incentive packages to work in those fields.
https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/12/819
https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/abs/10.1148/radiol.2332031119

Also, be wary of saying that studies show such and such is safe, or the government and agencies like to er on the side of extreme caution... Remember the syphilis studies on Americans? Or how about being told the water is safe to drink at Camp Lejeune, NC? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...roops/1608293/
Quote:
Toxic bases. Many of the worst Superfund toxic cleanup sites, often linked to all kinds of cancer clusters, are located on current or former military bases. Camp Lejeune, N.C., for example, has witnessed an alarming number of male breast cancer cases.
https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...ng-compounds#1

PS: Asbestos was once considered safe an used for all kinds of fire retardant purposes. I remember being issued an asbestos blanket in the military, was told it not only kept you warm but also could be placed over your head and body to protect you while escaping fire. Sorry if I lack faith or trust in authority figures or authoritative reports.

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 12-29-2019 at 11:41 AM.
 
Old 12-29-2019, 01:28 PM   #82
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,575

Rep: Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637Reputation: 2637
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Sorry if I lack faith or trust in authority figures or authoritative reports.
I hope I didn't come across as one exhibiting blind faith. I have none. The problem with general guidelines, rules of thumb, and words from authorities in areas not well known yet is exactly that - general and not well known. We can't possibly know everything so we do have a tendency to lean on others, especially the best experts currently available, for guidance but it seems to me it is not wise to stop there. Depending completely on one's likely exposures, it is fine to ignore what one is not likely to even be exposed to and minimize that we individually are exposed to. Obviously as with asbestos, it is prudent to try to stay up to date to make rational decisions. The old cliche of "Believe half of what you read and none of what you hear" is hardly more than a very generalized caution, somewhat twisted for wry humor, but containing a kernel of truth. Don't marry the first person you fall in love with and don't accept "as gospel" just one source.

Specific to this thread, I seriously doubt any of us are signing a loved ones death warrant by allowing or even encouraging them to use a cellphone but it is certainly wise to include caution as part of the package. It is certainly not at all smart for several reasons, to have a cellphone (or even a landline wireless networked phone) jammed in your (or anyone's ear) for hours each day. It's probably completely safe to talk endlessly on a wired phone, not only because the fields of both transmit and receive are so weak, but due to the huge sample of users for going on a century now.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 07:00 AM   #83
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware, OpenBSD
Posts: 3,916
Blog Entries: 11

Rep: Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169
I saw something today which saddened me. Coming out of my local Tesco was a young woman pushing a chair with a toddler in it. I don't know how old the child was because I don't know how you tell that kind of thing. Old enough to be sitting upright in a chair anyway. It was holding a smartphone and staring into it intently.

They start young these days.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 07:07 AM   #84
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: Currently OpenMandriva. Previously openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, CentOS, among others over the years.
Posts: 3,414

Rep: Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762
I think I've even seen primary school kids have smartphones too, certainly high school kids do. I remember being on a bus when it was just after knock off time for school and they were on their way home/wherever else; there was only one kid that wasn't holding a smartphone doing whatever on it.

When I was in school, you were the king if you had a PC with a CD burner, or even just a PC...
 
Old 12-30-2019, 07:15 AM   #85
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware, OpenBSD
Posts: 3,916
Blog Entries: 11

Rep: Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169Reputation: 2169
But a toddler???
 
Old 12-30-2019, 08:19 AM   #86
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.
Distribution: Currently OpenMandriva. Previously openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, CentOS, among others over the years.
Posts: 3,414

Rep: Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762Reputation: 1762
Like you said, they are start'n young these days, and times are change'n...
 
Old 12-30-2019, 12:11 PM   #87
freemedia2018
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Distribution: various automated remasters
Posts: 216

Rep: Reputation: 203Reputation: 203Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigor View Post
Naturally I do have to wonder if some people that seem to use text messaging a great deal, do so, not because of an addiction like process, but instead to keep the source of the radiation further away.
Inverse square law works both ways, so there is a world of difference between holding a 2-way radio in your hand (several inches from your body) and pressing it to your temple. I greatly prefer texting to talking on the phone.

Of course there are times when there is no substitute, but using a headset with a wire or lower power radio is probably better than using a radio that is powerful enough to do communication with a cell tower. Unless there is no difference at all.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 01:51 PM   #88
273
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian Sid AMD64, Raspbian Wheezy, various VMs
Posts: 7,455

Rep: Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301Reputation: 2301
I wrote my first BASIC program at 6 just to mess with the teacher introducing us to it. Technology is here and is everywhere. Not sure that holding back on exposing children to it is of any help?
 
Old 12-30-2019, 04:03 PM   #89
ChuangTzu
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2015
Location: Where ever needed
Distribution: Slackware/Salix while testing others
Posts: 1,557

Rep: Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616
hazel, unfortunately this is becoming more prevalent. I've seen toddlers with cellphones/tablets in restaurants, in the buggy at grocery stores, while in car seats in the back of the car etc... Seems one generation used radios to "raise kids", another used TV's and now its cellphones/tablets to keep them quiet.

My wife and I were having dinner at a Japanese restaurant a few weeks ago and a family came in (Mom, Dad, young child and a toddler). As soon as they sat down, the mother gave the toddler a tablet to watch YouTube videos, the father was already texting or Facebooking, then the mother began to text/facebook on her phone, and the young child/pre-teen was already livestreaming or video-chatting someone. Not one of them spoke to each other, was some inaudible grunting and nodding though. Oh, it also appeared they ordered their food online because I did not see them speak with the waiter/server either, yet food arrived for them.

Quite concerning that people are losing the ability to simply BE and exist without a screen in their face.
 
Old 12-30-2019, 04:07 PM   #90
ChuangTzu
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2015
Location: Where ever needed
Distribution: Slackware/Salix while testing others
Posts: 1,557

Rep: Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I wrote my first BASIC program at 6 just to mess with the teacher introducing us to it. Technology is here and is everywhere. Not sure that holding back on exposing children to it is of any help?
Basic humanity and the skills associated with it should be introduced before technology. What will become of tech dependent people if/when that technology fails/disappears?

This is an interesting read, if for no other reason then to realize how many "skills" we have already lost or subjugated to "others"/companies.
https://www.amazon.com/When-Technolo...s=books&sr=1-1
 
  


Reply

Tags
uot


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there syncing software like jpilot, but for LineageOS phones (Android phones)? mark_alfred Linux - Software 20 05-05-2019 01:55 PM
LXer: BlackBerry chief: We don't have to make phones to make phones LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 07-20-2016 03:27 AM
Pros and cons of Android phones, iPhones and Blackberry phones? puppymagic General 21 11-23-2010 08:33 AM
Smart problem adding new channel in Smart-beta google01103 SUSE / openSUSE 1 11-21-2006 08:17 AM
LXer: A Million Linux Smart Phones Shipped in China, Q2 LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 07-28-2006 04:03 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration