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Old 01-08-2020, 05:10 AM   #136
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
No you didn't. You used a more extreme term according to Websters Dictionary
I've reread the pertinent parts of the thread and though you've used what I would loosely term some "bravado", I can't isolate any specific hyperbole/exaggeration - so I retract that. I also have to admit that the thread has gone off on multiple tangents (RF emissions as one example) and at this stage, for me it's all rather confused - and I will probably just call it a day after this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
This was indeed a serious mistake on my part. The words are there but escaped the quote leader tag. It was an accident but I am responsible and I sincerely apologize for my error both in what I concluded and how I came to that conclusion. You did in fact state that it was opinion.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Incidentally I offered this apology because it is my responsibility to answer for my mistakes even though in this case that is a more difficult "pill to swallow" considering you refer to me as being both hyperbolic and pedantic, both substantial personal insults.
While I still assert that you've been rather pedantic in this thread - you've picked over wording and definitions - and it comes across a strategy to undermine the arguments of your perceived "opposition" - there was no desire to insult by using that particular term. I merely think you have a strong desire to be always perceived right, to correct what you perceive as misinformation and in many ways it comes across that you like to win arguments for the sake of winning them.

I on the other hand have no desire to win arguments, just to debate/discuss and would not go out of my way to rubbish and dismiss all opinions and make demands for scientific white papers every time something remotely vague or unverified is posted by someone on the WWW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I really don't understand your need to attack me or get heated at all. Until the insults I had no argument with you, just with ideas and about smartphones for crying out loud.... not exactly political or religious hotbed stuff.
It may come across as "heated" it isn't. We have different styles, but as I see it, you use some dismissive and condescending comments in your posts - and that can come across as "insulting" for some - bear in mind that this forum is accessible from around the world and perhaps cultural differences play a part. But when all is said and done, there was no intention on my part to insult, so I do apologise if that's how it came across.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I make a distinction between being addicted to heroin and in the habit of regularly buying lottery tickets and apparently you do not.
This may be what I think of as hyperbole and misrepresentation - it's also somewhat condescending.

I do make a distinction (from an earlier post):

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Last time I checked, addiction was a disorder of the brain. Which in effect means that not just psychoactive drugs can be addictive. So long as whatever it is leads to stimulation of the reward pathways - releasing dopamine and opioids, it is technically an addiction. So gambling, social networks, computer gaming, etc, can all be addictive. There is a huge difference between that and e.g. heroin addiction, but the seriousness of one, particularly withdrawal or what lengths people will go to to get their "fix", does not simply cancel out the other.
Once again, you have picked two extreme examples and bundled them into one statement seeking to misrepresent my opinion as so much poppycock. For someone who is supposedly very much about "precision" (as applied to others), you should try reading, quoting and responding with the same level of precision.

It's interesting that I largely agree with jsb's latest post, but jsb's end his post in stating that he agrees with you...

Again I think this another matter of semantics - I and others have used the term "smartphone addiction". I was never referring to the physical device (i.e. if you take out the battery and just carry it around, it cannot be addictive and raise your dopamine levels), but its functions, the software it hosts and its portability and the concept behind it are all geared towards addiction.

Opinion time again:

I also maintain that there is "gaming addiction", "online gambling addiction" and "social media" addiction, but the lines are blurred. The smartphone is the facilitator. My question is - is a laptop computer - the same kind of facilitator?

For me the smartphone adds "the convenience factor", it is designed around the apps and around social media and communications in general, it's not the other way around. For lack of any better expression, it's concealable - and it's mobile. An addict is severely limited in their addiction if they have have to hump a laptop around in a bag. They cannot walk around in the street or sit on public transport using a laptop for their social media "habit".

I agree in part that "social media addiction" and similar are being conflated with an admittedly theoretical dependence on the devices themselves. ondoho mentioned 50%, I would say the split is very different. The hardware plays a part - it's plays a psychological role mainly based on the aesthetics, "features" and UI of the OS, but software wise, the access to "social media" is a bigger pull than an OS most don't understand nor care about. But "social media" and the devices are a bit of a "horse and carriage" scenario for most - e.g. how many would buy a phone which has no access to social media sites by design? And how many would sign up to a "social media" site, which has no "app" for the popular phone OS? With "social media" it's all about numbers after all.

Last edited by cynwulf; 01-08-2020 at 08:51 AM. Reason: added quote
 
Old 01-08-2020, 06:03 AM   #137
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
...
I also maintain that there is "gaming addiction", "online gambling addiction" and "social media" addiction, but the lines are blurred. The smartphone is the facilitator. My question is - is a laptop computer - the same kind of facilitator?
This was basically the very point I was making earlier on, in that; while I would use the "enabler" rather than the word "facilitator", whichever word we wish to use; the hardware itself (and I would also say the software too) simply "enables" someone to "fulfill" their "addiction" to social media or whatever else - therefore it's not the smartphone itself that's "addictive". I would agree with you cynwulf that a laptop, and for that matter any computing device that can be used for things like social media, gaming, etc would also be "enablers" or "facilitators" - whichever words we once again prefer. Therefore the smartphone itself isn't much, if any different in that particular regard.

I think if you say a smartphone itself is "addictive", then by extension, that would also mean a laptop or desktop PC, tablet, etc must also be "addictive" (not saying you were saying that BTW).

This is where the portability and the "convenience factor" come in that you talk about below:

Quote:
For me the smartphone adds "the convenience factor", it is designed around the apps and around social media and communications in general, it's not the other way around. For lack of any better expression, it's concealable - and it's mobile. An addict is severely limited in their addiction if they have have to hump a laptop around in a bag. They cannot walk around in the street or sit on public transport using a laptop for their social media "habit".
Quote:
I agree in part that "social media addiction" and similar are being conflated with an admittedly theoretical dependence on the devices themselves. ondoho mentioned 50%, I would say the split is very different. The hardware plays a part - it's plays a psychological role mainly based on the aesthetics, "features" and UI of the OS, but software wise, the access to "social media" is a bigger pull than an OS most don't understand nor care about.
...
I think this is where we are perhaps getting confused/conflating things. I'd also say that whether or not smartphone manufacturers design them to be "addictive" is probably another debate, versus whether or not one CAN actually make a smartphone itself "addictive" - which I'm not sure they could, even if they wanted to/are trying to...
 
Old 01-08-2020, 10:58 AM   #138
enorbet
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Hello again cynwulf. I do hope you haven't left the conversation because I think we are gaining some ground, narrowing down the initially perceived differences to actual differences. I actually think this is at the same time harder with plain text absent physical cues but also easier due to having a fixed record to refer back to and not relying on just memory.

In any case I will try to keep my reply to your last post shorter. First I think it might be instructive to note that you say you perceive that I "like to win arguments" right on the heels of my admitting a fairly serious mistake and overtly and sincerely apologizing for that mistake. Is that not a bit of a contradiction? FWIW I really can't help my "over wording". I talk this way. I started college as an Engineering major and ended as an English Literature major with engineering minor. It is both a blessing and a curse.

As for insults, I accept your explanation and step down from that perception but I would like to point out that at least in one case, that of my reference to heroin vs/ regular lottery ticket purchase, which you see as hyperbole, that regular lottery ticket purchase is a form of what I think you would call "gambling addiction" and I'm pretty close to that myself as gambling addiction at the very least is a habit which is cultivated and in some people can become extremely negative even while positives are ignored and lost. It is in that fuzzy in-between area for which I prefer to make a distinction since it does not create the same behavior in everyone, just very small percentages of us.

I'm hoping by explaining that I am by no means trying to simply ignore negative applications of habitual smartphone use and outright deny that some do become so habitualized that they cross that line into self-destructive choices, that people see I am not diametrically opposed to that concept. I also hope I've made it clear that I view the thread title as quite precise since I would imagine few of us consider "the blankie" as a certified addiction, but rather a mildly bad habit.
 
  


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