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Old 02-19-2014, 10:10 PM   #91
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Here's how I've seen this always go down...

User asks: Why doesn't Slackware have auto-dependency resolution?
Valid question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Community Responds: Why does Slackware need auto-dependency resolution?
Doesn't answer the initial question does it. Instead I would think it would be much better to explain that Slackware give the user the choice of what goes on their system. This is the exact opposite to auto-dependency resolution and suits some users and this is one of many reasons they use Slackware.

The rest of your "conversation" could very well be very different if the technical reasons were explained rather than the conversation you posted. Instead of baiting the person who ask the valid question you should probably try answering it so they actually learn something.

Anyway I have said my piece so carry on however you wish.

Last edited by k3lt01; 02-19-2014 at 10:12 PM.
 
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 PM   #92
ReaperX7
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How is it baiting when it's the same generalized line of questions that's been asked and repeatedly responded to time and time again?

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Instead I would think it would be much better to explain that Slackware give the user the choice of what goes on their system.
To which was clearly posted even non-technically as part of the answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
add in the proper software to do so yourself
The point being... Slackware is what YOU make of it for yourself through proper administration. Slackware gives you all the most commonly used tools and packages available for generalized work in any environment. The rest however is up to you.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 10:49 PM   #93
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Here's how I've seen this always go down...

User asks: Why doesn't Slackware have auto-dependency resolution?

Community Responds: Why does Slackware need auto-dependency resolution?

User responds: To be more like distribution XYZ.

Community Responds back: Slackware isn't distribution XYZ. If you want Slackware to behave like distribution XYZ, add in the proper software to do so yourself, or go use distribution XYZ.

User Responds again: But I like Slackware.

Community Responds: Then since you know what Slackware is about, why are you asking such a pointless question?

Take that however you like it, love it, hate it, put it in a pickle jar and save it till Christmas. It is what it is, and sorry, but Richard is actually correct in his argument.
I didn't want to discuss this further, but the hypocrisy with this post didn't let me abandon this thread.
Ok, let us see how that really goes down:
- Bartgymnast: I want to try systemd on Slackware, we may need it in the future and I want to work on it, any help appreciated, please no flamefests, only helpful answers.
- ReaperX7:
Quote:
One does not simply "need" systemd.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post5063956
- ReaperX7:
Quote:
You'd be best to wait for an official package if one ever comes.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post5064145
- ReaperX7:
Quote:
Sorry but selling snake oil doesn't sit well with me. You can do what you please, but if you are so hell bent on making a systemd Slackware, then go make a fork.
Quote:
You seem to fail to realize that systemd is NOT welcome here especially by those of us who understand Linux and what systemd aims to do to Linux that is not needed nor required.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post5064171
So much for "If you want Slackware to behave like distribution XYZ, add in the proper software to do so yourself".
But let's look for the last part of that sentence:
- vdemuth: Hey, I can't stand Slackware on my desktop anymore, I went to openSuse and I like dependency resolution and having large repositories with binary packages.
- Bindestreck:
Quote:
Oh c'mon, a true Slacker fixes it himself,
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...2/#post5120007
- Bindestreck:
Quote:
He is a false slacker to me yes, that simple, complaining as a child (my personal definition, not a universal one).
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...2/#post5120038
- follow ups from ReaperX7 and harryhaller, how they don't see his reasons to change the distro as valid, and how he even could dare to openly state his reasons, in times where everyone is bashing Slackware. Do you guys really want to censor Slackware criticism? Would be quite funny, especially as ReaperX7 later tells vdemuth to start a petition to get the Internet censored if he doesn't like his opinion. Who can see the double standard?
- Other members, mainly ruario, but later even AlienBob chime in to speak out for vdemuth and against the unfriendliness of some other members, Bindestreck apologizes for his behavior, together with the first answers to this thread some friendliness here for a longtime Slacker.
- GazL and k3lt01 chime in to say that the zealotry of the community make them post less or even not at all, just to hear, at least in the case of k3lt01, that this is a load of crap.
Not in the absolute chronological order, but somewhat like that happened, because a fellow Slacker decided to
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
go use distribution XYZ.
[sarcasm]Yes, I can see the friendliness and honesty of some of the Slackware users here.[/sarcasm]
At least some nice people have chimed in in that thread here, thanks for that, otherwise I would be even more disappointed.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 02-20-2014 at 05:57 AM. Reason: fixed typos
 
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:05 PM   #94
salemboot
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Intensity

Darth Vader: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

The brand may change but the skills are essentially the same.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 11:05 PM   #95
ReaperX7
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Censoring the internet Tobi was merely sarcasm... Obviously it's a poke, but still you're way off on what I meant by that, and I, or anyone else, doesn't need a trolling style retort over claimed hypocrisy.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 11:21 PM   #96
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
Censoring the internet Tobi was merely sarcasm... Obviously it's a poke, but still you're way off on what I meant by that, and I, or anyone else, doesn't need a trolling style retort over claimed hypocrisy.
Mate, it is time to mellow out and relax. Just my two cents worth on this. I wish vdemuth well on his new journey. Each to his own.
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:38 AM   #97
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
User asks: Why doesn't Slackware have auto-dependency resolution?

Community Responds: Why does Slackware need auto-dependency resolution?
Actually I think that is a pretty poor answer, at least as the very first reply since it is quite confrontational (IMHO). What is to stop the OP being equally smart ass in his reply and saying, Why does Slackware not need auto-dependency resolution?. Expect repetition ad nauseum and/or a flame war.

Rather that encourage aggression it would be better to actually help the user, after all LQ is supposed to be a friendly place where people can find answers. To me, more acceptable answers would be:

We have had this question quite a few times on the forums. If you run a quick search you will find the answers you are looking for. Come back once you have read these, if you still need help understanding these reasons. Remember to link (or quote) what you have already read.

Or if you are feeling particularly helpful:

We have had this question quite a few times on the forums. Here is a previous explanation: Package and dependency management shouldn't put you off Slackware (scroll down to the section entitled "Why dependency management doesn't have to be difficult"). Come back once you have read the reasons, if you still need help understanding anything.

Last edited by ruario; 03-03-2014 at 07:37 AM. Reason: added possible reply from user and sample link; updated link
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:07 AM   #98
moisespedro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Frankly, that's a load of crap.

I haven't seen a Slackware-related question where the person asking for help got flamed for asking it. I've seen where people ask "Why isn't Slackware more like <insert other distro name here>?" and get flamed for it, but that's scarcely a request for help.

I try to help people solve their problems around here and my alias means "dickhead". (My other preferred alias would be banned outright.)

I asked MANY questions here (some of them were really stupid) and people here has always been very helpful.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 06:34 AM   #99
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
So you would never own a BMW because a large subset of BMW owners are jerks?
That is exactly why I refused the BMW company car my employer wanted me to drive.

In the same spirit, I recognize Ubuntu for some real innovations for the Linux Desktop, but I will never use it because of that distro's user base. As a distro, you reap what you sow. Ubuntu as a whole does not appeal to me because of how it tries to cater to its target audience.

If Slackware's community would shift to become a bunch of assholes then I would stop posting in tbis LQ forum. I like to help people getting more advanced with Slackware, but I like to choose whom I help.
For the same reason I stopped reading and posting on AOLS (Usenet group alt.os.linux.slackware) and left #slackware on Freenode IRC because of the negative atmosphere and the relentless bashing of well-meaning people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Frankly, that's a load of crap.
I haven't seen a Slackware-related question where the person asking for help got flamed for asking it.
You just have to read the thread created by BartGymnast where he announces his work on a systemd package set for Slackware. His ass got flamed for asking for co-operating on this subject...

Look, I am vehemently opposing systemd and the group of people behind it, but that is a fight about external influences trying to bully their way into Slackware. Still, Slackware as a distro has to be prepared to make a decision and take a stance when the moment arrives that software stops compiling or even functioning when systemd is not present on the system. You can only make a good decision if you know all the facts and that means that I support BartGymnast's effort to get systemd working on Slackware.

Please let this thread die peacefully. Please respect your distro.

Eric
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:48 AM   #100
enorbet
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To be completely honest, it wasn't my intention to be offensive. It was my intent to display skepticism and confusion. Frankly I don't care much at all if someone makes the decision to "jump ship". As we've recently discussed in the "Why KDE?" thread, it is my opinion that it isn't necessary to justify a choice, especially one that is largely taste. Also especially if the "justification" is either somehow mistaken (eg the hangover concept or rationalzation that some major, fundamental flaw was just left around to continue for 5+ years wherein the PUBLICIZED perception/rationalization constitutes FUD) that's fixable. If it's just taste, it is smarter to buy chocolate in the first place rather to heap chocolate flavoring on strawberry.

So I am relatively unconcerned that OP has made a choice to switch (I even pointed out that it wasn't an irrational choice as Suse has some "Pro" type features like not assuming everyone want's to abandon a runlevel and always boot to X). However it isn't the choice that "tickled my spidey senses" and made me, and I assume others, feel a tad skeptical and defensive. Why publicize it? and in a castigating sort of way.

It would have been one thing to say,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGenuineGuy
"Well guys I really have given it the old college try (10 years!) but I have decided to switch to a distro that I think may suit me better. Thanks for the friendship, discourse and assistance over the years. I learned a lot and hopefully helped some others, too"
Instead we get -

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdemuth
And what a difference. It boots faster, runs faster and installing software is so easy. I even broke it on purpose to see how to repair it and guess what, it even repairs faster and easier. So if Slackware as a desktop scores somewhere around 80% satisfaction, Suse adds at least 15% to that so far.
which feels a bit like an insult and a slap in the face. We certainly must be fools to put up with such an obviously inferior product! 15%! !! 1 5 % !! AND fixes easier, too! I'm eating Chateaubriand now while you lot are stuck eating Ground Round! No wonder people bristled a little.

I don't know vdemuth so I couldn't know if he was even genuine or just a fud-spreading,flame-bait, troll and the whole thing a construct. I thought I gave him the benefit of the doubt, while retaining some question as to his motives for posting it publicly and in a moderately negative manner.

So again, if genuine, I honestly wish vdemuth good fortune and that "the grass truly is greener" for him or at least more to his liking.

Last edited by enorbet; 02-20-2014 at 06:54 AM.
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:03 AM   #101
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
Please let this thread die peacefully.
Agreed. I recommend euthanasia. Could a Moderator administer a lethal injection, please?
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:28 AM   #102
55020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Agreed. I recommend euthanasia. Could a Moderator administer a lethal injection, please?
Looking at the thread title, that's the most on-topic post in the entire thread
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:02 AM   #103
vdemuth
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I can't comprehend some of the hubris that has been aired here. It certainly wasn't my intention.
@ enorbert: yes, maybe I could have been a little more diplomatic in my departure, but as I'm sure we all know here, diplomacy is often full of untruths. So while you and others may have found my comments a little difficult to swallow, at least I was being honest with how I felt at the time. having said that, I apologise for any offence caused.
Meanwhile, I can only agree with Alien Bob and others and ask that this thread be closed as it's really starting to get out of hand.
 
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:35 AM   #104
narz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Bob View Post
Slackware's community would shift to become a bunch of assholes then I would stop posting in tbis LQ forum. I like to help people getting more advanced with Slackware, but I like to choose whom I help.
Whoa did I just see a proper use of whom? This is easily the best part of this thread.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 09:12 AM   #105
Alien Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narz View Post
Whoa did I just see a proper use of whom? This is easily the best part of this thread.
English is not my native language but I am a spelling nazi. I feel uncomfortable looking at language abuse.

Eric
 
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