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Old 05-03-2002, 01:52 PM   #1
RLee
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Question Unusual question


Hello,
This is not about a crash...but maybe how to prevent one. In windows, which I came from, there were several little freeware programs designed to "refresh" your memory if it got low, freeing
up RAM.
( Programs like RamIDLE, or RamPage, or QuickResource, or
Rambooster, to name just a few--)
Forgive a possible "stupid question", but--

What can I do in Linux, if anything, to accomplish the same thing? Is there some way to "free up" resources ON THE FLY, while I am online and working?

I have a notebook with a modest amount of RAM and I foresee a possible problem. I run RedHat 7.2 and use a dialup connection
and am online writing and browsing quite a bit. I really could use this help, I think.

Thanks so very much,
RLee
 
Old 05-03-2002, 02:18 PM   #2
u02gtt
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From what ive read (and thats not much) this isn't really needed because of the way linux handles memory and disk cacheing. I have only have 32 mb ram, and i never get any problems, although i dont use kde or gnome, but i normally have lots of stuff going on at once and have not yet had any problems (except when i tried to compile, play solitaire and have vtcl, dosemu and netscape all running at once nad it was rather slow)

Last edited by u02gtt; 05-03-2002 at 02:21 PM.
 
Old 05-03-2002, 02:43 PM   #3
Druaga
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uh... windows crashes because it doesnt recover memory so the more programs you run the slower it gets (they fixed this memory leak problem in win2K and XP, they made new problems for those versions). Windows will also crash because of the registry, the registry holds ALL the configuration for ALL your programs, therefore any program that looks for its configuration needs to search through all of the registry, this will contribute to the memory loss problem. The registry is now also the most accessed file in windows, meaning that its the most likely file to get corrupt, the format of the registry also makes it mor fragile for corruption.

Unix, which linux is based on, has been developing for years and as such, they have elimated this simple problems ( i dont think they ever released a version that had memory leaks or any release that is nearly as unstable as windows). The configuration for programs in Linux have individual config files that are tough plain text. Each file is only accessed when needed by a specific program, therefore each file is not used nearly as much as the windows registry is.

So I am not sure how you would even go about trying to get Linux to crash other than if you wrote a program that just keeps writing stuff to the memory and takes up the resources, but i dont see why you would do that
 
Old 05-03-2002, 10:46 PM   #4
RLee
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Then I am stumped...

Well, then, folks, the crashes I have managed must mean that
I simply don't have enough RAM in my machine for running Red
Hat 7.2, at least while surfing in Mozilla. My letters from my
Yahoo box just wouldn't SEND, and all I got was RELOADING...
And I have been getting time-outs..and a crash here and there..
if you call the system just not responding and freezing up a
crash. So I thought maybe something could free up some
resources that maybe had leaked...(thinking like I was still
in Windows... my apologies!)

My ISP throughput is enough in Windows...
On the same machine, it works quite all right, this modem.
And the kppp seems to show a decent flow on the linux side...
So I am at a loss for an answer.

Any suggestions as to how I could avoid this becoming a
disaster? I use Linux PRIMARILY to browse and to do searches
for research, online. Nothing else, really.

Is RedHat 7.2 laptop installation with Gnome and KDE simply
too much for a little notebook with 128 megs of RAM?

Should I try to do a custom reinstall...and leave certain
resource users and daemons out or not running?
And if so, any suggestions?


Or should I try a leaner DISTRO?
After reading your answers, unless I have configured something wrongly, I am doing the impossible. Because I can get it to freeze and have to be rebooted. While online.

And I don't know what I could have done wrong.
I have simply installed the security updates.
And the new KDE version...

Didn't mean to ask so many questions...
But not sure how to attack this problem, really.
Thanks,
RLee
 
Old 05-03-2002, 11:36 PM   #5
Druaga
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this is quite odd... i've never had Linux Crash on my computer with 64 MB of RAM.
I use Mozilla all the time, and it used to run slow with my old computer with 200MHZ processor, but with my new computer (1 GHZ AMD Duron) it works great.

If it only happens when you are using Mozilla, then maybe its a problem with Mozilla. I am currently using Mozilla 1.0, and KDE 3.0.
 
Old 05-04-2002, 12:46 AM   #6
oudent
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Try testing your RAM. You may have physical problems. If you look at some past messages there was one that mentioned a RAM testing utility:

MemTester

check it out. I personally haven't used it, but if you use the search feature and search for "Red Hat 7.2 Memory Eaten Up"
there is a little more info on it. It could also just be like my computer though...it just crashes with anything.

Goodluck.

Last edited by oudent; 05-04-2002 at 12:55 AM.
 
Old 05-04-2002, 10:14 AM   #7
RLee
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solution?

First, Druaga, I am glad for you. No crashes. With half the RAM.
Well...
I don't in Windows, either, on same machine, doing same things..
But then, I have one of those RAM refreshers...
It was the only thing different that I could think of.
Same WinLucent internal modem, and using IE instead of
Mozilla but thought they were pretty close in resource usage.
No, my Windows just crashes every so often as homage to Bill,
and that's it. The normal number of crashes, and freezes...

Now, I am told there is a thread about this...at this forum, which
I will search out, so thanks, OUDENT, so much for that tip and the
MEMTESTER page, which I checked out. I have a diagnostic
on the Windows side of this notebook, and the Memory has checked out perfectly, though.

Okay, I tried running XFCE, and that helps some...
But I would really rather run the normal KDE and GNOME.
Oh, and I have 3.0 in KDE and I have the 0.9.9 in Mozilla..
So I am not THAT out of date, am I?

Could we address some ways to help the problem of not
enough resources? Would increasing my SWAPfile help? Or
decreasing it, if I have this backwards? Or a config edit of some
sort? The normal solution of "MORE RAM" is difficult, so we
have to work around that.

See, the way my machine is made, a notebook, I can't get more
RAM into it...I have to take the old RAM out totally and replace
it..and it is a special size and all...(not to mention EXPENSIVE)
One of the reasons I came to Linux was that I was told that
it uses LESS resources than Windows 98, which is what was
on the computer.

Sorry, trying to keep this in one line of thought, but there
are several variables and outstanding questions that could
be pertinent to this situation.

Just bounce all the ideas you can think of that might even remotely
relate to finding a way to run Red Hat 7.2 with less resources. I
can uninstall or install anything reasonable...

Well, except I can't reconfigure the kernel worth a darn..
My first two attempts were disasters!
THANKS IN ADVANCE,

RLee
 
Old 05-04-2002, 10:31 AM   #8
RLee
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Found the search thread mentioned..

And the last question asked, is there something running at
startup, was my question, too.

I don't run Sendmail, I don't use anything at startup but the
Firewall, and whatever it takes to go online and browse...and
CROND, of course. I even turned off the REDHAT server at startup,
as I use RedCarpet, anyway.

So now I don't know what else I can do.
Is RedHat 7.2 really a resource hog? I know that it accepted my
notebook configuration, and that was going to be a problem possibly
with other distros...Since it was an older notebook with some
proprietary stuff in it.

OUDENT, I am glad that at least the other thread said there was
no KERNEL recompiling to do!
Is there a minimum startup list you guys could suggest?
Is there no help?

RLee
 
Old 05-04-2002, 10:40 AM   #9
finegan
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Re: Then I am stumped...

Quote:
Originally posted by RLee

Is RedHat 7.2 laptop installation with Gnome and KDE simply
too much for a little notebook with 128 megs of RAM?

Or should I try a leaner DISTRO?
After reading your answers, unless I have configured something wrongly, I am doing the impossible. Because I can get it to freeze and have to be rebooted. While online.
Usually the only reason to run a leaner distro is a severe lack of disk space. I've had RH 7.2 running on 2 different 500Mhz laptops with 128 and no problems, so I'm a little befuddled.

These freezes could come from one of 3 things I'd guess as the likely culprit:

X windows and a lot of the mobile graphics cards just don't get along. What kind do you have? Also, what X are you running? The defualt for 7.2 was 4.1.0, but I couldn't get anything but 3.3.6 to run right on my Compaq and its Trident Cyberblade.

KDE is a resource pig, its easy the most resource sucking monster of a desktop in the free software world, and 3.0 is even more ridiculous. Yeah, I dig it too, I've got it running on 3 machines now. XFCE, Fluxbox, heck an older KDE in the 2's. I also haven't had a ton of reliability from 3.x, there was a lot of rush to get it out.

Mozilla, okay operating system, pretty good browser. Again, Mozilla is the beast of the browsers, a huge resource piggy. I try not to even install it these days. Have you ever used Opera? 3Mb Download, 12 Megs installed... this is compared to Mozillas 60.

Honestly, if the memory checked out, its most likely something flippy with X.

Luck,

Finegan
 
Old 05-04-2002, 12:00 PM   #10
RLee
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Finegan, this is interesting...

Now you're talking..
Finegan, I think we are onto something...

Okay, Opera, eh? I thought, like Navigator, they kept tabs of
where you went and reported it.
And that it wasn't SECURE because of it being adware and
leaving ports open...That was the buzz...
IS THAT JUST IN WINDOWS? It's okay in Linux? And FREE?


I have an ATI mobility Video card...haven't noticed any problem
there...RedHat accepted it right away.

You know, I don't know what X I am running...Funny...
Well, I did just UPDATE the whole danged thing, so I guess
it is the newest version.
I updated it so the browser would look better...you know, the
font thing..mostly. Er, how would I fix this, if this is the culprit?

And KDE, too, hunh?
Okay, say I make GNOME the default, this could help drastically?
Or are there parts of KDE I should remove or uninstall?

SO if I do root in GNOME, and user in GNOME with XFCE,
would that make a noticeable difference, you think? OR
just stick with GNOME and forget XFCE?

Thanks.
RLee
 
Old 05-04-2002, 01:24 PM   #11
finegan
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Re: Finegan, this is interesting...

Quote:
Originally posted by RLee
Now you're talking..
Finegan, I think we are onto something...

Okay, Opera, eh? I thought, like Navigator, they kept tabs of
where you went and reported it.
And that it wasn't SECURE because of it being adware and
leaving ports open...That was the buzz...
IS THAT JUST IN WINDOWS? It's okay in Linux? And FREE?
Opera is ad-ware, is free, and evidently the code necessary to shut off the ads can be scrounged from the web, but I'm not lacking for screen real-estate so I don't bother. Konq is lighter-weight too, and already on there. Try 'em all out, browsers are small on disk, shop around.

Opera is alright with security locally, tweakable to a fair degree. As far as it informing Opera about your movements... I've never cared enough to look into it. Heck, I'd prefer it as Opera comes preset with a pile of bookmarks to Linux sites (for the Linux version. The Solaris version has neat ones too. All of them have a pre-built to /.) All they would ever find out about me is that I visit here a lot! Yippee, a pre-link to LQ!

X used to have issues with ATI-Ms, but that all went away, with a vengence, in the 4.x series. Nah, that probably isn't it then.

One thing un-nerves me: There are 4 things I wouldn't trust up2date about, and up2date hardly ever works for me because of this. I told it to stay away from my 1) kernel [I don't like the way RH pre-compiles anything in the kernel these days. They're too bleeding edge one way and utter wimps another] 2) bootloader, [If I re-run lilo, I'm doing it myself so I can fix it if it breaks] 3) libraries [I've only successfully updated glibc once, so why would I trust a braindead utility to do it], and 4) X [X can get dodgy, very dodgy].

I wouldn't hack out parts of KDE; and Gnome in resource pigging comparison is like having a five course and just skipping the fruit and nuts. There isn't just the dichotomy though, you could also use a no-weight desktop like fluxbox or blackbox or enlightenment. Really, if you want to hack through those, talk to acid_kewpie, he's a big fan of the RPM distros like RH and Mandy and knows how to make X squeak better than most on the forums.

One thing though, do these freezes only occur while playing with Mozilla? Or at anytime? Also, what's the clock speed and chip make on this thing that 128Mb of RAM can't hack it?

Luck,

Finegan

Last edited by finegan; 05-04-2002 at 01:26 PM.
 
Old 05-04-2002, 10:23 PM   #12
RLee
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Okay..Finegan, if Opera is Adware--but free, that is something to
think about. How do the Ads work...does it keep another port
open so that the ads can come in and out? Is this another
vulnerability? Or not?

And using Mozilla, all the time, really, so YES, that is
where it freezes or slows to where it doesn't function.
But I do use Konq...In fact, I took out Galeon and Nautilus
because I didn't like how they interfered with other things.
But I am using Konq, especially in place of Nautilus, as
a file and disk browser. Do you think it would be better to
just take the Mozilla out and be a Konqueror-only system?

The chip is a PIII-500 mhz..

And I like your thinking on UP2DATE, don't use it either.
Red Carpet, or go to Freshmeat, once in a great while, like
for XFCE...

Did you mean that GNOME is a lot lighter than KDE?..I
didn't understand what you were saying, quite. Say again
on Gnome vs.KDE... As far as which uses less resources running.

Thanks again...

RLee
 
Old 05-04-2002, 11:09 PM   #13
neo77777
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Hi everyone, let me step in between. GNOME is as hungry on resources as KDE.
I'd suggest to stick to a window manager on older systems. Fluxbox, blackbox, WM, E etc. As for me I had a lot of freezes on my not so resource chumpy system (Athlon @ 850MHz with 512 SDRAM). After switching preferenes to E and AfterStep I am no longer experience freezes, go figure. As for ad-ware Opera, there is no need for another open port to deliver ads into your browser, so the security ofthe box stays the same. Finegan wright about Mozilla being a resource pig. It is, and I am avoiding using it, I just need it installed for Galeon, which is more lighter than Mozilla, even though it depends on it. Also as you said you turned off all unneeded services, I'd suggest just to make sure you are not running anything that you don't need.
/usr/sbin/setup scroll to Services and see what is running.
 
Old 05-05-2002, 10:05 AM   #14
RLee
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Thanks, NEO and Finegan,

As I write this, I am downloading OPERA..
This old dog can still learn new tricks. So thanks for stepping in
and confirming Finegan.

As for managers, I got rid of Nautilus, didn't like it, and
am booting up into a Gnome with no manager, really, except
Sawfish, which I haven't even configured, really.

Is E Enlightenment, and would you suggest I try this, since
Nautilus is gone?

Thanks,
RLee
 
Old 05-05-2002, 10:22 AM   #15
trickykid
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Re: Thanks, NEO and Finegan,

Quote:
Originally posted by RLee
As I write this, I am downloading OPERA..
This old dog can still learn new tricks. So thanks for stepping in
and confirming Finegan.

As for managers, I got rid of Nautilus, didn't like it, and
am booting up into a Gnome with no manager, really, except
Sawfish, which I haven't even configured, really.

Is E Enlightenment, and would you suggest I try this, since
Nautilus is gone?

Thanks,
RLee
That is what I use now, Enlightenment is awesome. Blackbox, Fluxbox, WindowMaker are all good too though.
 
  


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