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Old 09-17-2013, 05:56 AM   #46
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
If I remember correctly, the problem is Mate has renamed some of the libraries that are used by both Mate and Gnome. The long delay in adding Mate to Debian's repositories is due to fixing that library problem. If I remember correctly that is.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00257.html
Close enough. There are currently three mate packages in unstable - namely mate-common, mate-doc-utils and libmatekbd. They have been in unstable since April, May and August respectively. Only the former two are in testing.

Not much progress since this as far as I can tell, which is a pity: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00247.html
 
Old 09-17-2013, 06:10 AM   #47
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00257.html
Close enough. There are currently three mate packages in unstable - namely mate-common, mate-doc-utils and libmatekbd. They have been in unstable since April, May and August respectively. Only the former two are in testing.

Not much progress since this as far as I can tell, which is a pity: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00247.html
Maybe because packages from MATE 1.7 (the development release) have entered Sid and they may as well just work on that instead of MATE 1.6?
 
Old 09-17-2013, 10:46 AM   #48
Sumguy
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Junior-S, thanks for all the info! I don't have an Nvidia card...but I will save that info in case I end up with one in the future- as I've always heard that they tricky with Linux.

Great idea about running Deb in a virtual machine, to tinker with!! I'll definitely do that.

When you install it on the VM, do you essentially go through the whole process with the installer- like when I installed it on the PC? (I'm hoping so, as I would like to become proficient with installation, so when I get my next 'puter, I'll know what I'm doing... Like: I should have chosen the LVM option, I see now, after Googling to see what LVM is... ...and I shouldn't have checked Noatime -D'oh! )

A question, if you don't mind:

Is it possible/advisable to have Debian access files from my Ubuntu, so I don't have to duplicate/migrate a bunch of stuff?

Oh...and if I download and install XFCE, can I easily switch between it and Gnome? (No problems with Gnome so far....)

I'm really flabbergasted at how user-friendly Linux has become. I was picturing having to manually install a million things in Debian (And not knowing if it would even tell me if I needed dependencies, etc.); pictured a limited GUI- thinking I'd need to constantly Google for CLI commands....etc. But I must say.....Debian (Yes, I have the stable 7.0- I think that's "Wheezy") is just as user-friendly as Ubuntu; is fully functional out-of-the-box; great GUI (Except for slightly different menus and look, I really can't tell the difference between this and Ubuntu)...it's kind of like Linux-for-dummies....and yet it's the grand-daddy of 'em all, and I'll never out-grow it! And ya gotta love that stability thing!(Too bad Microsoft can't figure THAT out! Windows is liie freakin' mercury; this thing is solid as a rock!)

Oh, one more thing....how long will this particular version be supported? (Hopefully, a long, long time....)

You know, I think if the general public knew how user-friendly Linux has become, Linux would gain a much bigger share of the market. I'm sure if I sat my 88 year-old mother down in front of WinD'ohs 8 and one of these newer Linux distros, that she'd figure out the Linux much sooner/easier than the Windurs! (I've never used Windurs 8....but I've heard stories...)
 
Old 09-17-2013, 03:32 PM   #49
TroN-0074
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There is no way Debian 7 (wheezy) looks like the old Ubuntu. There is no task bar in Gnome shell. And the launcher is vertical on the left side of the screen. Debian 7 (wheezy) actually uses Gnome 3.4 and the kernel used is 3.2
Type on a root terminal uname -a to find out what kernel you are using
Here is a link with screen shots
https://www.google.com/search?q=debi...5jlPwoQJQSM%3A

Are you running it on Classic Mode?

Last edited by TroN-0074; 09-17-2013 at 04:14 PM.
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #50
junior-s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Junior-S, thanks for all the info! I don't have an Nvidia card...but I will save that info in case I end up with one in the future- as I've always heard that they tricky with Linux.
Yes. Right now they are the best option for gaming on Linux. I find AMD cards superior, but only on Windows. Perhaps in a few months AMD will be good regarding their drivers :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Great idea about running Deb in a virtual machine, to tinker with!! I'll definitely do that.
Well, it's better than having to re-install the system. The good thing is that you can save the state of the machine on a snapsoht, I do it right when the installs finish so if I need I can restore that state (or more states), saving the time of installing everything aggain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
When you install it on the VM, do you essentially go through the whole process with the installer- like when I installed it on the PC? (I'm hoping so, as I would like to become proficient with installation, so when I get my next 'puter, I'll know what I'm doing... Like: I should have chosen the LVM option, I see now, after Googling to see what LVM is... ...and I shouldn't have checked Noatime -D'oh! )
Yes. The install on a VM is just like the real deal. The system basically won't know if it's being installed "like a program" and the VirtualSystem will perform exactly as it should.

I don't use LVM and for me it's not an advantage doing so. Since I use disk encryption I decided to use regular partitions, so if I need to re-install the system it's going to be more trouble-free. I encrypt "/", "/swap" and "/home" and leave the /boot partition un-encrypted (I save copies of it regularly inside the encrypted partitions).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Is it possible/advisable to have Debian access files from my Ubuntu, so I don't have to duplicate/migrate a bunch of stuff?
No. Never do that. Debian should use it's own packages and only that.

I don't even recommend using PPA's on Debian, you won't have much help when your system breaks, and it will do so sooner or later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Oh...and if I download and install XFCE, can I easily switch between it and Gnome? (No problems with Gnome so far....)
I have GNOME, KDE and XFCE installed and didn't have any problems so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
I'm really flabbergasted at how user-friendly Linux has become. I was picturing having to manually install a million things in Debian (And not knowing if it would even tell me if I needed dependencies, etc.)
Linux have been user-friendly for quite a long now, but remember that since Linux is related to freedom there are distros like Arch that will require an advanced level of knowledge to tinker with.
I find it better when you get your hands on distros like that because you can do what every you want with it. I remember having to swallow 80 programs I didn't need just because Ubuntu is "too much friendly" and has to accomplish the needs of most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
pictured a limited GUI- thinking I'd need to constantly Google for CLI commands....etc. But I must say.....Debian (Yes, I have the stable 7.0- I think that's "Wheezy") is just as user-friendly as Ubuntu; is fully functional out-of-the-box; great GUI (Except for slightly different menus and look, I really can't tell the difference between this and Ubuntu)...it's kind of like Linux-for-dummies....and yet it's the grand-daddy of 'em all, and I'll never out-grow it! And ya gotta love that stability thing!(Too bad Microsoft can't figure THAT out! Windows is liie freakin' mercury; this thing is solid as a rock!)
You probably won't find any ways of breaking wheezy and having it crashing, unless you want to do so. Debian has "Stable" as their only Official release and, unlike Ubuntu or Windows, it's ALWAYS consistent and stable.

Ubuntu's release cycle look more like: "Oh gee, it's terrible" ; "Meh" ; "OK" ; "Terrible again" ; "Kind of stable" ; "Useless".
Debian's releases: "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable".

Windows seems to do more OK than Ubuntu. At least they have a stable cycle: "XP? Good" ; "Vista? OH NO!" ; "W7? OK" ; "Windows8? WTH?" ; Next Windows will probably be OK again LOL

The problem with Windows is MS's policies. If they wanted to make Windows a usable system they could've done it for a long time, but as I like to say: Windows has always been the cherry-pie to organizations like NSA, specially since Microsoft handles their vulnerabilities to NSA before they fix them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Oh, one more thing....how long will this particular version be supported? (Hopefully, a long, long time....)
Well, you have to consider you're using the Stable release, which has a release cycle of 2 years (I don't know their support life yet). In 2015 the next stable (now called 'jessie') will take place. I noticed you must be worried about upgrading, and there's absolutely no problem in doing so. Debian is NOT Ubuntu so don't expect problems migrating from wheezy to jessie when it becomes the next stable. Not to mention you'll have software older than 2 years, so upgrading is always good.

You don't need to stick with Stable if you don't want. If you need you can also track "testing" instead of "stable", this way you will have a semi-rolling-release distro. If you track "unstable" you will always have something new, you'll get upgrades much sooner and have always (when possible) the newst software available, but this also comes with more problems. You won't get this with Wheezy, because when the Debian Dev's say it's stable = it's going to be stable, meaning you won't have the newest software but you WILL have probably the most stable distro there is.

I'm on Jessie, the current Testing branch. Ubuntu LTS is mostly based of Debian Testing so you can expect a lot of stability, even if you track the Unstable branch (remember: This is not Ubuntu, there will always be far less problems).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
You know, I think if the general public knew how user-friendly Linux has become, Linux would gain a much bigger share of the market. I'm sure if I sat my 88 year-old mother down in front of WinD'ohs 8 and one of these newer Linux distros, that she'd figure out the Linux much sooner/easier than the Windurs! (I've never used Windurs 8....but I've heard stories...)
There are some distros that are very user friendly, but you won't see much experts using it, e.g. Ubuntu/Mint or it's forks.

I find Ubuntu much easier than Windows in some many aspects:

* It's easier to get a lot of things going. For example, if you need a program you can get it from the Software Center instead of searching the web for suspicious programs knowing that you can get infected even as you enter a web-page.

* It will have more drivers than Windows "out-of-the-box". Hell, Windows 8 didn't even have the drivers for my 4 years old MOBO.

* It's easier to maintain. No need for antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-this and anti-that. No defrag, no long virus scanning.

The problem most regular users find in Linux is compatibility and the fact that they don't want to change. Linux is better than Windows in all aspects but people are either affraid of new things or (in some cases) don't want to have to buy things*.

* This is not prejudice, it's just a reference of the fact that we linux users give more money to companies than Windows or Mac users and the fact that most people install illegal software with no regards of any legal moral at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroN-0074 View Post
There is no way Debian 7 (wheezy) looks like the old Ubuntu.
What is "old Ubuntu"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TroN-0074 View Post
There is no task bar in Gnome shell. And the launcher is vertical on the left side of the screen. Debian 7 (wheezy) actually uses Gnome 3.4 and the kernel used is 3.2
You're wrong in many ways. There IS a task bar in GNOME, but the good one is only present in Classic Mode (haha). I get it, GNOME3 by default has a lot of usability issues, but it's classic mode can perform very good. And you can put the launcher on the bottom-left or bottom-right corner, you can edit the menus and bars just like gnome2. You can even let just one bottom bar and use it like KDE/Windows style.

And yes, the Kernel in the stable release of Debian is 3.2. If Debian dev's say this is the most stable so far: They're probably right.

The Kernel on Jessie is 3.10-2 and it's good to, didn't notice any problems (so far).
 
Old 09-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #51
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroN-0074 View Post
There is no way Debian 7 (wheezy) looks like the old Ubuntu. There is no task bar in Gnome shell. And the launcher is vertical on the left side of the screen. Debian 7 (wheezy) actually uses Gnome 3.4 and the kernel used is 3.2
Type on a root terminal uname -a to find out what kernel you are using
Here is a link with screen shots
https://www.google.com/search?q=debi...5jlPwoQJQSM%3A

Are you running it on Classic Mode?
Not sure if I have Classic by default...but I do have a taskbar.

Meh...sure, there are little trivial differences between the look and feel of Ubuntu and Debian- but really, it's all just very trivial. On one, something is on the left...on the other it's on the right. Not an isue for me- I take five minutes to play around on a new OS, and boom!- Ya know right where everyhting is. I tried a few different distros a few years ago when I first started with Ubuntu; and now the Debian- and, while maybe there may be more noticeable differences for more advanced users, personally, it all seems to pretty much work the same for me- as far as I can see, the eye-candy is different, and the default stuff which comes with the various distros. (And it seems, no matter which distro we're talking about- they ALL tend to come with programs other than what I'd choose!).

Hmmm...you're right about 3.2 as opposed to 3.4 - This is what the terminal says:
Quote:
3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.46-1+deb7u1 i686 GNU/Linux
Cool! Something worked to my advantage for once in a rare while

The one thing I miss, is the [seeming] inability to put a program's shortcut icon on the bar across the top of the screen. I don't get it-= they keep making these things bigger and moire advanced and complex....but we LOSE functionality and convenience?

S'alright, though- after I move my data to Debian.....I'm all ready to move entirely to Debian.

Uh-oh... I just looked at the link you provided..... I'd better get proficient in the near future, so I can eventually move to a "harder" Linux...if that Gnome 3.4 is the next thing to come down the pipe in Debian! (I know I'm nkt locked into that one DE...but I get worried when they start trying to all "modern and trendy"..... I like the old tried and true things, which work- which is what I thought Debian was all about. (I really forsee myself just giving up computing in the future; getting an old rotary-dial phone, or 2 tin cans and a string....)
 
Old 09-17-2013, 08:54 PM   #52
junior-s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Not sure if I have Classic by default...but I do have a taskbar.

Meh...sure, there are little trivial differences between the look and feel of Ubuntu and Debian- but really, it's all just very trivial. On one, something is on the left...on the other it's on the right. Not an isue for me
You're both talking about a Desktop Environment. GNOME3 will look the same on Debian as it looks on Ubuntu or openSUSE, unless the maintainer of the packages modifies them.

You can't tell if KDE is running on this or that distro just by it's GUI, this should be the same as GNOME, XFCE etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
I take five minutes to play around on a new OS, and boom!- Ya know right where everyhting is
This looks promising =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
I tried a few different distros a few years ago when I first started with Ubuntu; and now the Debian- and, while maybe there may be more noticeable differences for more advanced users, personally, it all seems to pretty much work the same for me- as far as I can see, the eye-candy is different, and the default stuff which comes with the various distros. (And it seems, no matter which distro we're talking about- they ALL tend to come with programs other than what I'd choose!).
Well, Ubuntu is based off mainly of Debian so expect them to work similarly. Of course, not everything will do the same, you're not going to always reproduce the steps made on Ubuntu on Debian. Just note that these are two different systems and there will be times where you'll need more work to make things work on Debian than you did on Ubuntu =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
The one thing I miss, is the [seeming] inability to put a program's shortcut icon on the bar across the top of the screen. I don't get it-= they keep making these things bigger and moire advanced and complex....but we LOSE functionality and convenience?
Well, gnome3 by default is that messy, and unless you go to the Classic mode you'll have to get used to it. Log off, then select "Classic Mode", then log back in. You then will be able to place things where you want them, in the bars, desktop etc. Just go to where my next screen-shot is pointing and enable "File Manager on Desktop":

Instructions: http://imageshack.us/a/img196/8949/o6jw.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Uh-oh... I just looked at the link you provided..... I'd better get proficient in the near future, so I can eventually move to a "harder" Linux...if that Gnome 3.4 is the next thing to come down the pipe in Debian! (I know I'm nkt locked into that one DE...but I get worried when they start trying to all "modern and trendy"..... I like the old tried and true things, which work- which is what I thought Debian was all about. (I really forsee myself just giving up computing in the future; getting an old rotary-dial phone, or 2 tin cans and a string....)
You should always stay with what fits you the best. For me it would have been openSUSE but they don't let me chose the encryption algorithm nor encrypt everything without LVM. So, Debian is where I'm staying till hell freezes over =]

Quote:
I like the old tried and true things, which work- which is what I thought Debian was all about.
You thought? What changed your mind?
 
Old 09-17-2013, 11:12 PM   #53
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Well, it's better than having to re-install the system. The good thing is that you can save the state of the machine on a snapsoht, I do it right when the installs finish so if I need I can restore that state (or more states), saving the time of installing everything aggain.
THAT is just so great! Come the winter, when I have more free time, I'll be doing this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
No. Never do that. Debian should use it's own packages and only that.

I don't even recommend using PPA's on Debian, you won't have much help when your system breaks, and it will do so sooner or later.
Oh, I think we're talkiong about 2 different things. I just meant that I'd like to migrate some data over to Debian- like .jpegs and .pdfs and mp3s.....

I'm thinking the way to do it, is to mount the Ubuntu partition in Debian, and then copy what I need......but since that partition is 73 gigabytes...I'm hesitant- fearing that my 'puter will eggsplode! There doesn't seem to be a way to just mount individual folders.... (Am I on the right track here?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Linux have been user-friendly for quite a long now, but remember that since Linux is related to freedom there are distros like Arch that will require an advanced level of knowledge to tinker with.
I find it better when you get your hands on distros like that because you can do what every you want with it. I remember having to swallow 80 programs I didn't need just because Ubuntu is "too much friendly" and has to accomplish the needs of most people.
I agree completely. I'd rather drive a stick than an automatic. I don't use 98% of the junk that comes pre-installed on most OS's- but my lack of computer/Linux knowledge forces me to stay with the user-friendly dumbed-down distros....for now.

I'll tell you, though- just in the 3 years since I started with Ubuntu, Linux has gotten a LOT more noob/user-friendly! With Ubuntu 10.04, I had to spend hours installing virtually every codec; configuring even my ethernet DSL connection (I could just imagine wireless! Yikes!)...Java...everything. Now with Debian, which is supposed to be harder, I ran the downloaded installer..it downloaded everything it needed automatically...configured it all....and in 2 hours from the time I started the installer, I was posting on here! Amazing! All I have to do, really, is configure email...and try and import my data/favorites/etc, and that's it! Truly impressive- and yet I'm not stuck with some dumbed-down do-as-we-say the-way-it-comes-is-the-way-it-will-always-be-until-WE-changer-it OS! Gotta love it!



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
You probably won't find any ways of breaking wheezy and having it crashing, unless you want to do so. Debian has "Stable" as their only Official release and, unlike Ubuntu or Windows, it's ALWAYS consistent and stable.
Yes, that I'm not worried about. Amazingly, I never broke Ubuntu. Or even WinD'ohs (Unless you count the times WinD'ohs broke itself...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Ubuntu's release cycle look more like: "Oh gee, it's terrible" ; "Meh" ; "OK" ; "Terrible again" ; "Kind of stable" ; "Useless".
Debian's releases: "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable" ; "Stable".

Windows seems to do more OK than Ubuntu. At least they have a stable cycle: "XP? Good" ; "Vista? OH NO!" ; "W7? OK" ; "Windows8? WTH?" ; Next Windows will probably be OK again LOL
Oh, I found Ubuntu to be a world of tranquility and stability compared to Windows. In three years, I think Ubuntu crashed once on me (As opposed to Windows crashing at least once a day...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
The problem with Windows is MS's policies. If they wanted to make Windows a usable system they could've done it for a long time, but as I like to say: Windows has always been the cherry-pie to organizations like NSA, specially since Microsoft handles their vulnerabilities to NSA before they fix them.
Well I'm glad NSA uses Microsoft- If they used Linux, they might actually get something done, and really do us some damage.... (I'd gladly buy a copy of WIN8 for the current inhabitant of the WH- but it might be construed as an act of terrorism )



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Well, you have to consider you're using the Stable release, which has a release cycle of 2 years (I don't know their support life yet). In 2015 the next stable (now called 'jessie') will take place. I noticed you must be worried about upgrading, and there's absolutely no problem in doing so. Debian is NOT Ubuntu so don't expect problems migrating from wheezy to jessie when it becomes the next stable. Not to mention you'll have software older than 2 years, so upgrading is always good.

You don't need to stick with Stable if you don't want. If you need you can also track "testing" instead of "stable", this way you will have a semi-rolling-release distro. If you track "unstable" you will always have something new, you'll get upgrades much sooner and have always (when possible) the newst software available, but this also comes with more problems. You won't get this with Wheezy, because when the Debian Dev's say it's stable = it's going to be stable, meaning you won't have the newest software but you WILL have probably the most stable distro there is.

I'm on Jessie, the current Testing branch. Ubuntu LTS is mostly based of Debian Testing so you can expect a lot of stability, even if you track the Unstable branch (remember: This is not Ubuntu, there will always be far less problems).
No problem there. Amazingly, I had no problem updating Ubuntu (the one time I did it.... Luck?). I tend not to do updates. If everything's working and compatible....I like to just stick with it, unless I truly need something (Like when my old WIN98 was so old that it was really obsolete, and it was starting to just not play at all with modern web content and newer peripherals, etc.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
There are some distros that are very user friendly, but you won't see much experts using it, e.g. Ubuntu/Mint or it's forks.

I find Ubuntu much easier than Windows in some many aspects:
Totally agree! With Windows, you have to jump through unnecessary hoops just to do the most basic things- and I was spending more time doing maitenance (Defragmenting; cleaning registry; malware scans....) Guess I was lucky though...as I managed to avoid getting any viruses...and I NEVER used an AV program....

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
* It's easier to get a lot of things going. For example, if you need a program you can get it from the Software Center instead of searching the web for suspicious programs knowing that you can get infected even as you enter a web-page.
Yes! I downloaded a program 5 minutes after installing Debian. Piece of cake!

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
* It will have more drivers than Windows "out-of-the-box". Hell, Windows 8 didn't even have the drivers for my 4 years old MOBO.
WoW! That is just ridiculous- but then, it doesn't surprise me, because I believe that MS does that sort of thing to cause computers to become obsolete....which keeps the computer manufacturers happy- as MS gets the blame, and yet they get to sell more computers. (I'm a died-in-the-wool capitalist/fan of the Austrian economists- but even I consider MS to be an "evil corporation"!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
The problem most regular users find in Linux is compatibility and the fact that they don't want to change. Linux is better than Windows in all aspects but people are either affraid of new things or (in some cases) don't want to have to buy things*.
Yes, unfortunately, the compatibility can be a legitimate issue- although not as bad as it used to be. To me, it's worth a little extra trouble and/or expense, to have something that works so well- and in the long-run, it's really cheaper, because you don't constantly have to replace your expensive, proprietary OS...which in turn causes you to have to replace your computer and peripherals because the new OS isn't compatible with the older stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
* This is not prejudice, it's just a reference of the fact that we linux users give more money to companies than Windows or Mac users and the fact that most people install illegal software with no regards of any legal moral at all.
Absolutely! I'd feel good about paying for something which does what it is supposed to do- yet which they are willing to give you for free...as opposed to paying more for something which doesn't do what it's supposed to; and which is engineered [apparently] with planned obscelescence; and which also causes your equipment to become obsolete.

Maybe it would even be better if Linux developers charged for their software....as it would keep them from going the way of Canonical. There's a built-in Google search window on the Iceweasel that came with Debian. I'd rather pay a few bucks for a web-browser and have no built-in garbage like that...than to get it for free and be stuck with it, or have to do work to get rid of it. (I was using Chromium and SeaMonkey Ubuntu. Between the two, it allowed me to do everything I needed- but I'd really like to get away from Chrome, due to the Google-connection/spying)



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
What is "old Ubuntu"?
Pre-Unity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post

Quote:
I like the old tried and true things, which work- which is what I thought Debian was all about.
You thought? What changed your mind?
Seeing the screenshots of Gnome 3.4 that Tron posted! I get nervous when they have something good, and then try and pander to the masses by trying to replicate the "latest and greatest". Admittedly though, at least one is not forced to use that DE- so it's not so bad- but I'm like you: Why have to install something that you don't like/want, to begin with? But at least we DO have choices....unlike MS, where it's "Do as we say", and they even go out of their way to actively prevent you from doing anything else.

But hey, I'm loving this Debian- and will shortly be wiping Ubuntu, and using it's partition perhaps to set up a more refined version of Debian, after I play...err..uhh...practice on a VM... [That truly was the best idea anyone has given me in a LONG time! )


Thanks again, for all the info and comments!

Last edited by Sumguy; 09-17-2013 at 11:20 PM.
 
Old 09-18-2013, 12:22 AM   #54
junior-s
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Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Oh, I think we're talkiong about 2 different things. I just meant that I'd like to migrate some data over to Debian- like .jpegs and .pdfs and mp3s.....

I'm thinking the way to do it, is to mount the Ubuntu partition in Debian, and then copy what I need......but since that partition is 73 gigabytes...I'm hesitant- fearing that my 'puter will eggsplode! There doesn't seem to be a way to just mount individual folders.... (Am I on the right track here?)
If it's nothing that will require libraries calls, then it's OK. Music, photos, videos etc.

There should be no problem in mounting big partitions, and for all I know if a folder is inside a partition that is not mounted yet = you'll need to mount that partition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
I'll tell you, though- just in the 3 years since I started with Ubuntu, Linux has gotten a LOT more noob/user-friendly! With Ubuntu 10.04, I had to spend hours installing virtually every codec; configuring even my ethernet DSL connection (I could just imagine wireless! Yikes!)...Java...everything. Now with Debian, which is supposed to be harder, I ran the downloaded installer..it downloaded everything it needed automatically...configured it all....and in 2 hours from the time I started the installer, I was posting on here! Amazing! All I have to do, really, is configure email...and try and import my data/favorites/etc, and that's it! Truly impressive- and yet I'm not stuck with some dumbed-down do-as-we-say the-way-it-comes-is-the-way-it-will-always-be-until-WE-changer-it OS! Gotta love it!
I really don't mind a lot of useless programs installed by default. I have a rather big hard-drive so a couple of megabytes more won't make a difference. What I don't like is tons of software running on login and making the distro bloated. Unity counts as 50% of that on Ubuntu LOL Just kidding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Yes, that I'm not worried about. Amazingly, I never broke Ubuntu. Or even WinD'ohs (Unless you count the times WinD'ohs broke itself...)
That's exactly what I meant. Ubuntu tends to fall on the ground and let it's icecream drop by itself sometimes. I remember being presented with tty1 after installing the video drivers (via Jockey) on Ubuntu 12.10. That's not what I would call "user friendly". Not to mention Kernel breakages and all sorts of breaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Oh, I found Ubuntu to be a world of tranquility and stability compared to Windows. In three years, I think Ubuntu crashed once on me (As opposed to Windows crashing at least once a day...)
Linux tends to handle things in a better way than Windows. I remember crashing every 5 seconds on Windows after a test overclock. I ran the same overclock on Ubuntu for a month without the need of a reboot =) Of course, it was the default install of 12.04 so that counts as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Well I'm glad NSA uses Microsoft- If they used Linux, they might actually get something done, and really do us some damage...
I don't remember exactly where I read, but I recall reading something about NSA being a contributor to the Linux Kernel. Only difference is that our Kernel is open and not closed as Windows'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
No problem there. Amazingly, I had no problem updating Ubuntu (the one time I did it.... Luck?). I tend not to do updates. If everything's working and compatible....I like to just stick with it, unless I truly need something (Like when my old WIN98 was so old that it was really obsolete, and it was starting to just not play at all with modern web content and newer peripherals, etc.)
No ofense, but that's what I consider a bad habit.

Upgrading is part of getting better things. In Windows this happens once a month (or less) and it usually doesn't fix much things (heheh), but on Linux sometimes we get updates more than once a day and I tell you, you wan't to update your system. Perhaps not now, but there could be some bug in something critical (Like the Kernel) that will break your system unless you update it with the latest fixes. Not updating your system is the key of making it vulnerable, specially to malware (yes, even on Linux).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Guess I was lucky though...as I managed to avoid getting any viruses...and I NEVER used an AV program....
You didn't notice any suspicous behavior, but there could be some unknown threat =)
Hell, there could be even a serious threat to Linux that hasn't been found yet. Nobody knows until it happens, and keeping your system up-to-date is one attempt to avoid these things =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Yes! I downloaded a program 5 minutes after installing Debian. Piece of cake!
It sure is when they are in the repos. But I had many problems installing Steam on wheezy, too many dependencies to resolve, spent hours trying to figure out. On Jessie, did it in two minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
WoW! That is just ridiculous- but then, it doesn't surprise me, because I believe that MS does that sort of thing to cause computers to become obsolete....which keeps the computer manufacturers happy- as MS gets the blame, and yet they get to sell more computers. (I'm a died-in-the-wool capitalist/fan of the Austrian economists- but even I consider MS to be an "evil corporation"!)
BINGO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Yes, unfortunately, the compatibility can be a legitimate issue- although not as bad as it used to be. To me, it's worth a little extra trouble and/or expense, to have something that works so well- and in the long-run, it's really cheaper, because you don't constantly have to replace your expensive, proprietary OS...which in turn causes you to have to replace your computer and peripherals because the new OS isn't compatible with the older stuff.
Compatibility problems are most a thing of the past. There's VirtualBox and Wine for people who need to run Windows programs. I don't rune Wine or anything serious on Wine or Virtualbox, I want to forget Micro$oft and don't support them anymore. Only thing I do is play a Super-Nintendo emulator on Windows =P Can't forget old times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Absolutely! I'd feel good about paying for something which does what it is supposed to do- yet which they are willing to give you for free...as opposed to paying more for something which doesn't do what it's supposed to; and which is engineered [apparently] with planned obscelescence; and which also causes your equipment to become obsolete.
I don't mind too.

What I don't like is being forced to pay more money. Like, if you buy Windows you will have to buy new copiess after the lifetime of your current edition expires; or you can't install it on more than one computer etc. That's one of the reasons I don't like Micro$oft. They should change their policies so that users have freedom instead of handcuffs, their users should be able to install Windows on more computers, they should be able to change their system the way they want and they should be able to see the Source Code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Maybe it would even be better if Linux developers charged for their software....as it would keep them from going the way of Canonical.
Nonononono. We all know Canonical is taking very dumb roads, but most Linux devs aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
There's a built-in Google search window on the Iceweasel that came with Debian. I'd rather pay a few bucks for a web-browser and have no built-in garbage like that....than to get it for free and be stuck with it
Well, you're in a free world now, baby! You're not stuck with it! You can change the code to make icewasel lose it's search tool! And guess what, you don't have to pay anything! \o/

Jokes aside, it's probably because of demand. If people start complaining to Mozila that they don't want that bar then (I assume) Mozila will remove it. Paying Mozila for it won't help much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
(I was using Chromium and SeaMonkey Ubuntu. Between the two, it allowed me to do everything I needed- but I'd really like to get away from Chrome, due to the Google-connection/spying)
I also tried. ICeswasel performs as I want, but it got slow after a few weeks. It's barely useable.

I don't want any conection to google as well but Chromium is opensource, so that's an advantage from Chrome. I also don't install anything related to Microsoft (skype etc), nor Google (chrome, earth) since they're all in the PRISM program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Pre-Unity?
Those were the good times of Ubuntu hehehe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Seeing the screenshots of Gnome 3.4 that Tron posted! I get nervous when they have something good, and then try and pander to the masses by trying to replicate the "latest and greatest".
Linux is different from Windows and you should've known that already. If you don't like the way GNOME is going (like me), install something else. Or change it's source code. But it's not a reason to think Debian isn't what you thought. It's just a DE, nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Admittedly though, at least one is not forced to use that DE- so it's not so bad- but I'm like you: Why have to install something that you don't like/want, to begin with? But at least we DO have choices....unlike MS, where it's "Do as we say", and they even go out of their way to actively prevent you from doing anything else.
Oh, so you DO admit you have freedom hahaa.
You don't need to install GNOME with Debian. There's a point on install where you can chose:

* The graphical environment
* Printer server; Audio server etc

You can simply unmark (with the spacebar) the first option (which is the DE) and install something later, be it KDE, XFCE, LXDE, openbox, whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
But hey, I'm loving this Debian- and will shortly be wiping Ubuntu, and using it's partition perhaps to set up a more refined version of Debian, after I play...err..uhh...practice on a VM... [That truly was the best idea anyone has given me in a LONG time! )
Glad you liked it =]

Also, you can perform upgrades from wheezy to jessie without installing on another partition. Just make sure you perform an upgrade on a VM before (on init3, remember because it's important).

Last edited by junior-s; 09-18-2013 at 12:30 AM.
 
Old 09-18-2013, 02:08 AM   #55
EDDY1
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Quote:
I'm thinking the way to do it, is to mount the Ubuntu partition in Debian, and then copy what I need......but since that partition is 73 gigabytes...I'm hesitant- fearing that my 'puter will eggsplode! There doesn't seem to be a way to just mount individual folders.... (Am I on the right track here?)
Yes you can mount your Ubuntu partition & copy data, but although it maybe a 73G p[artition how much data actually resides on it? You may be able to shrink that partition & grow your Debian /home partition allowing you to transfer the data to it. run
Quote:
df -h
 
Old 09-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #56
Sumguy
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Originally Posted by EDDY1 View Post
Yes you can mount your Ubuntu partition & copy data, but although it maybe a 73G p[artition how much data actually resides on it? You may be able to shrink that partition & grow your Debian /home partition allowing you to transfer the data to it. run
Thanks. I ended up doing it last night. Took me a while to figure out the exact commands to do it- but I got 'er done. I first had to figure out that in Debian, there is a terminal...and then there is a seperate root terminal..... And you are correct; I really don't have all that much data on the partition.

Now if I could just find where the bookmarks are kept for Chromium in Ubuntu, so I could copy 'em.....I'll be ready to permanently abandon Ubuntu. I'm really glad that I took the plunge into Debian. This has been the easiest OS installation/migration.....EVER!
 
Old 09-18-2013, 11:48 AM   #57
TroN-0074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Now if I could just find where the bookmarks are kept for Chromium in Ubuntu


1. Click the Chrome menu on the browser toolbar.
2. Select Bookmarks.
3. Select Bookmark manager.
4. Click the Organize menu in the manager.
5. Select Export bookmarks.

Chrome will export your bookmarks as a HTML file, which you can then import into another browser.


Good luck to you
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #58
Sumguy
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Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
I really don't mind a lot of useless programs installed by default. I have a rather big hard-drive so a couple of megabytes more won't make a difference.
True. I'm coming to accept that. I guess I got into the minimalist mentality back when I had my previous 'puter with a 10GB HDD....and Windows. I was all about keeping free space; and keeping the system clean, so that it might work good -ROTFL! I guess now, with Linux, and 160GB, which is 80% empty, I don't need to worry so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
What I don't like is tons of software running on login and making the distro bloated. Unity counts as 50% of that on Ubuntu LOL Just kidding
Ditto! Having to tweak things so that they don't run automatically, feels an awful lot like Windows-style maintenance! And you're probably right about Unity. Hey, that's why I had no plans of sticking with Ubuntu- even though 10.04 worked fine for me. (Damn Unitarians! )



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
That's exactly what I meant. Ubuntu tends to fall on the ground and let it's icecream drop by itself sometimes. I remember being presented with tty1 after installing the video drivers (via Jockey) on Ubuntu 12.10. That's not what I would call "user friendly". Not to mention Kernel breakages and all sorts of breaking.
Darn! Sounds like Windows!



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Linux tends to handle things in a better way than Windows. I remember crashing every 5 seconds on Windows after a test overclock. I ran the same overclock on Ubuntu for a month without the need of a reboot =) Of course, it was the default install of 12.04 so that counts as well.
Heck, Windows'll crash from checking your email!



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
I don't remember exactly where I read, but I recall reading something about NSA being a contributor to the Linux Kernel. Only difference is that our Kernel is open and not closed as Windows'.
There's a difference between an open kernel and an unzipped colonel....



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
No ofense, but that's what I consider a bad habit.
I know- and some would think it ironic, since I'm a paranoid privacy nut! [Stop looking at my words!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Upgrading is part of getting better things. In Windows this happens once a month (or less) and it usually doesn't fix much things (heheh), but on Linux sometimes we get updates more than once a day and I tell you, you wan't to update your system. Perhaps not now, but there could be some bug in something critical (Like the Kernel) that will break your system unless you update it with the latest fixes. Not updating your system is the key of making it vulnerable, specially to malware (yes, even on Linux).
I should learn to relax about updates; and get with the program. Guess it's an old Windows prejudice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
You didn't notice any suspicous behavior, but there could be some unknown threat =)
Hell, there could be even a serious threat to Linux that hasn't been found yet. Nobody knows until it happens, and keeping your system up-to-date is one attempt to avoid these things =]
I did have a trojan once...that was fun Not bad though...once in 15 years of 'putering- 12 of which were with Windows.... Of course you are right...but I guess I don't tend to worry too much, because the types of websites I visit are by nature, very low risk...and because of my conscious efforts to maintain privacy, I don't put my real name on the 'puter, etc. If something did happen, I guess the worst it could be would be to break my system or use my 'puter as a bot- but I could always recover my data....and they'd get virtually nothing from me- i.e. no bank account info or anything...so I tend not to worry too much...especially using Linux.

Heh....during the Debian installation, on one screen, it said "Type your real name"- LOL! Yeah...right! [Don't even get me started about people who use their real name in their email address!]. I did have a local cyberstalker recently though....which really made me glad thatI guard my privacy!



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
It sure is when they are in the repos. But I had many problems installing Steam on wheezy, too many dependencies to resolve, spent hours trying to figure out. On Jessie, did it in two minutes.
Wow- it keeps getting better, eh? I know, I did have a lot of trouble (90% of the time) installing downloaded [as opposed to repository] software on Ubuntu....but that could be because i don't know what I'm doing!


Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Compatibility problems are most a thing of the past. There's VirtualBox and Wine for people who need to run Windows programs. I don't rune Wine or anything serious on Wine or Virtualbox, I want to forget Micro$oft and don't support them anymore. Only thing I do is play a Super-Nintendo emulator on Windows =P Can't forget old times.
I'm a very practical person....but I'll go out of my way and do what it takes to not use anything Windows! There's only one feature of one program which I used to use, which I can't replicate in Linux.....so I bought a couple of books, and just look up the info which that program would have given me, manually [And it's something I rarely use...so no biggie...]. Cost of books: <$100. Being Microsoft-free: Priceless!

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
What I don't like is being forced to pay more money. Like, if you buy Windows you will have to buy new copiess after the lifetime of your current edition expires; or you can't install it on more than one computer etc. That's one of the reasons I don't like Micro$oft. They should change their policies so that users have freedom instead of handcuffs, their users should be able to install Windows on more computers, they should be able to change their system the way they want and they should be able to see the Source Code.
As much as I love FOSS, I could see why for-profit companies need to act that way. I mean, just think- if one could mess with the code on Windows, people would change it just enough to make it different, and then use it for free/sell it/incorporate it into their own products. Or, if one could install it on multiple computers...you just know that all kinds of cretins would be installing it on the computers of friends and family members; acquaintences; ...people who give them $5...etc. I can see them protecting their property...it's just the nefarious things they do which bother me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Nonononono. We all know Canonical is taking very dumb roads, but most Linux devs aren't.
Phewww! I hope that's the case. I tend to think though, that as the masses continue to adopt things like tablets and netbooks [Are they still around?] that more Linux developers will pander to such [Can't blame them...]- I just hope that at least a few developers will be more interested in catering to old stalwarts like myself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Well, you're in a free world now, baby! You're not stuck with it! You can change the code to make icewasel lose it's search tool! And guess what, you don't have to pay anything! \o/

Jokes aside, it's probably because of demand. If people start complaining to Mozila that they don't want that bar then (I assume) Mozila will remove it. Paying Mozila for it won't help much.
I would tend to think that Google is paying them [or gioving them something in kind] for this. If their revenue came from us users of the software, instead of a third party.....they'd probably still do the same thing



Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
I also tried. ICeswasel performs as I want, but it got slow after a few weeks. It's barely useable.
I see what you mean. It's been on my 'puter for 36 hours... and on start-up today, it was making my fan rev....and acting a little sluggish.... What a shame...it seems to be a nice browser, otherwise. See? This is what worries me; You'd think the good people at Debian wouldn't use some such thing as a default program for their OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Oh, so you DO admit you have freedom hahaa.
You don't need to install GNOME with Debian. There's a point on install where you can chose:

* The graphical environment
* Printer server; Audio server etc

You can simply unmark (with the spacebar) the first option (which is the DE) and install something later, be it KDE, XFCE, LXDE, openbox, whatever.
Ah! I had seen that...but had i done it, wouln't that have left me with just a CLI? Hehe....me..with just a CLI! (It took me an hour last night to figure how to mount and access my Ubuntu partition from Debiuan...). The Gnome isn't too bad (at least not this version)....but I will be trying XFCE. I guess, once installed, one switches by choosing it on the user account thingie?




Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-s View Post
Also, you can perform upgrades from wheezy to jessie without installing on another partition. Just make sure you perform an upgrade on a VM before (on init3, remember because it's important).
Thanks! That's good to know..and will likely save me a lot of grease...err...grief.
 
Old 09-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #59
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroN-0074 View Post
1. Click the Chrome menu on the browser toolbar.
2. Select Bookmarks.
3. Select Bookmark manager.
4. Click the Organize menu in the manager.
5. Select Export bookmarks.

Chrome will export your bookmarks as a HTML file, which you can then import into another browser.


Good luck to you
Excellent! Thanks!

So I guess I could then just access that file from Debian, by mounting the Ubuntu partition....or copy the file to removable media and then access it that way from Debian.
 
Old 09-19-2013, 11:25 AM   #60
Sumguy
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* * * UPDATE / NOTES * * *



Well, fellers, I got all my bookmarks imported and set-up email...so Debian is my primary OS now.

I'm amazed by the user-friendliness! I truly believe that Linux is ready to go prime-time. I have a few friends who had expressed interest in getting away from Windows, back when I first switched to Ubuntu- but at that time, it would have been too difficult for them- having to install codecs and everything. (Here's a picture of them, after I once told them that they needed to extract a file... http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/8045...12/04/main.jpg ) -But today...I could see them switching to Mint or even Debian, and not skipping a beat.

A few of the little things are drivinhg me nuts, though:
Can't put icons/launcher/shortcuts on the top bar, or even the desktop! This is a travesty- as I like quick access to my browser and email- anything else, I don't care. And I really don't get it- Why is it, that as they make things more "sophisticated", resource-hungry, and complex, ...we LOSE functionality and choices??!! I would expect that from Microsoft.[SOLVED! See next post]

Constantly being prompted to "authenticate" whenever I try and do something- even though I am logged-in as administrator automatically by default! (Once, I was logged in as root...and was still prompted for authentication!). I was able to 90% cure that problem in Ubuntu- but there doesn't appear to be a way to do it here, in Deb.
Those are my two main gripes with Debian, so far. I know....seemingly minor- and in every other respect it seems like a great OS; and I'm sure I'll have no problem with it....but those two beefs really cramp my style!

Also: I installed and tried XFCE last night. I hated it! There was no performance difference between using XFCE and Gnome...and the XFCE looked like A$$....so I'll gladly stick with Gnome. (Do I dare uninstall XFCE? If you can't tell....I'm still gun-shy from Windows!)

In other news: I'm thinking of trying Archbang in a virtual machine [Now that I know about the VM thing, thanks to Junior_S, I will likely be playing with a lot of distros...). Debian will be my primary OS, likely for quite some time....until and if I find something that I like even better. Any recommendations for Distro that really lets you do what you want, without having to be a whiz[or even proficient] at CLI...while being very stable and offering a lot of packages? [I actually use very little software...but like for it to be there in the suppository[sic] when and if I need it...]

Last edited by Sumguy; 09-19-2013 at 02:11 PM.
 
  


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