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Distribution: Ubuntu 11.4,DD-WRT micro plus ssh,lfs-6.6,Fedora 15,Fedora 16
Posts: 3,233
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you mean this? http://linuxonandroid.org/
yes it actually works, no, it doesn't replace the android OS,if i understand correclty, it works by creating a chroot environment, but it IS a gnu/linux userspace on top of an android linux kernel.
The question is what is the cure to make Linux a tablet operating system the same way it is a desktop operating system
The answers so far point at the symptoms, not the cure
Saying you can run Linux in a virtual machine or use android is like saying you can use a Mac or iOS to run Linux
The question is how to make a distro that runs well on tablets, that's way Linux can innovate again
In 2009 Linux was on the cutting edge with compiz and multi touch
Linux used to be on the cutting edge on all the platforms, today it's falling behind and getting hijacked by closed systems like android iOS and OS X
Forced to run as a second class citizen on OS X Windows and android at best
It's no longer a first class citizen except on servers
I still have an N800 lying around somewhere. I haven't turned it on in well over a year. It was fun at the time, but still rather limited in usefulness. It filled a temporary need between Palm and Android. Once Android arrived, its usefulness was greatly reduced. I also have an Android tablet with a stylus in it, which I also haven't turned on in a very long time. I wish I could sell the boat anchors I have tucked away in drawers, disguised as tech equipment.
Distribution: Ubuntu 11.4,DD-WRT micro plus ssh,lfs-6.6,Fedora 15,Fedora 16
Posts: 3,233
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurao
The question is what is the cure to make Linux a tablet operating system the same way it is a desktop operating system
The answers so far point at the symptoms, not the cure.
and as a lot of the answers have stated, tablet/phone hardware is super proprietary. In order for an operating system to work on hardware properly, if at all, it needs drivers, and there are 4 ways drivers get written for Linux.
1) the manufacturer writes the driver and prvides a closed source binary blob (with bare minimum source to compile the requisite kernel modules against various kernels)
2) the manufacturer provides the specs to the community and open source drivers get written by the community
3) the open source community reverse engineers drivers for the hardware, and produces a driver that is often at best buggy and/or incomplete
4) as with the case of android, the manufacturer writes the drivers and ships them pre-bundled with their own spin of Linux/Android and makes never releases the actual drivers individually.
most phone/tablet manufacturers use method 4, so any attempts to put Linux on the tablet would be #3, reverse engineering, which is not the fault of the Linux community.
that being said, there are linux friendly tablets out there, and there are some tablets which you CAN hack linux onto, just because you don't find it with a quick google search doesn't mean it doesn't exist, keep searching, good luck.
The question is how to reverse the problem
Android has hijacked Linux with closed source code
TiVo is getting sued over this
Used to be Linux was on all curing edge hardware
Today closed systems are being used even when they are derived from Linux
Remember the Microsoft joke embrace and extend, well that's happening to Linux, why is there no presume from the Linux foundation to cease and desist from such practices, the whole point of Linux was not to be able to embrace and extend
There is an expectation when you buy hardware that you can use it
Would you buy a closed car with proprietary tires and roads and steering wheel
There used to be a lot of interest in Linux, linux could end up only running in vm's or not at all
Linux is running the risk of becoming an OS with no drivers .
An OS that only runs on vm's.
Certainly this is the way Microsoft Apple and Google would like it.
It might even become erelevant.
An operating system without drivers or not an operating system.
It already failed on the desktop, now we have a repeat on tablets, but much worse.
Most of the answers so far I researched too, but none of them solve the real problem.
Maybe companies should be sued so Linux can be ported with GPL after all it's not bsd.
There is an expectation when you buy hardware that you can use it
Telephones and tablets are offered by companies as pre-packaged tools and toys. It is up to individuals to decide if they want to buy them. Extending your automobile analogy, someone who buys a car from one company cannot replace parts of it with parts from another vehicle company. Would you buy a Ford and complain that you cannot replace the engine with a Chrysler engine?
The situation would only change if someone decided to make hardware designed to run *nix systems. No one will invest the large amount of money for development and production, unless they believe there is a large enough market for such a product to make a profit.
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Android has hijacked Linux with closed source code
How have they hijacked it? They are using a modified kernel to run a product they sell. An argument could be made that they are exploiting the work done by volunteers to create an operating system, but then so do a few well-known companies that use Linux to make money. And unlike those companies, Android has no influence on Linux development. Yet the companies making money off the volunteers and influencing development are seen as good guys, while Android that only exploits a little of the work of those volunteers is vilified.
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Used to be Linux was on all curing edge hardware
It was? That statement is at odds with everything posted on the sundry fora, technical press and blogs for many years. If Linux was compatible with all cutting-edge hardware, that must have been a long time ago.
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why is there no presume from the Linux foundation to cease and desist from such practices
Assuming you mean "pressure", the fact that they do not say anything should tell you something them. And if they were to make their opposition public, who would listen? Do you make hardware purchases and choose your OS based on what they recommend?
Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus; 10-30-2015 at 06:42 PM.
i understand the question, and why op is upset, but some of the statements made are incorrect.
e.g., many shell commands are the same on android & gnu/linux; it is not completely incompatible.
many attempts have existed, and exist, to make linux available on all kinds of architectures.
some result in useful operating systems (useful for non-techs i mean), some run but are not really usable on a daily basis, some are in development/alpha/whatever status...
op, instead of repeating yourself, re-read this thread. some questions have been answered.
Once again android is not Linux glib is missing
It's not open as you can't put android on tablets as they are proprietary
Third android is not Linux
Actually it is
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The kernel is not the same, pieces of Linux are missing, the drivers are not the same
They are, it is just not a generic compile. It is aimed at the devices that are on the tablets. Now, some of the drivers may be proprietary - but then even the Nvidia drivers for desktops are also proprietary.
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You can't take the so called open android and put it on a tablet as they are proprietary, also Linux components are missing
Depends on what you are referring to.
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Without open drivers you can't take android and put it on any thing
True enough - but you can put Android on anything the drivers are available for.
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Also it's not Linux compatible
There are Android devices that run Ubuntu along with all the android apps...
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The question was why not Linux on tablets, android is not Linux
Also it's not open, you can't take it and put it on any tablet like you can with Linux and a PC
You can't take Linux on some PCs and drop the binaries on other PCs either... when the drivers required are different than what happens to be built in.
The Android kernel is an embedded configuration. Drivers for the devices tend to be built in, not modules. It slows down boots when the drivers are modules - you have to have an initrd to load them. Having them built in speed boots by several seconds - and eliminates the need for initrd; both storage for it, and memory to load it). It is also a smaller system.
But the userspace is the same. You can add a Linux distribution to an Android kernel as Ubuntu has demonstrated.
I'm not sure anything is proven to be comparable
Can it run X11 with touch ?,can it run compiz ?
I'm not even sure it's compatible in user land
The drivers are not interchangeable neither is the kernel
I'm not sure the user land is either
I don't think it's proven Ubuntu etc can run correctly
And the solution is not open
Again it means Linux can only run as a second class citizen
Calling something the same when it does not seem to be is a bit deceiving
Most of what is written I researched as well
What I fond was the drivers and kernel were a problem
User land did not seem compatible
You can run Linux on Mac and Windows too on a vm, it does not make Mac or Windows Linux, seems similar in android
With a lot of secret adjustment maybe you can run Linux, but will X11 run correctly or compiz or touch, and it's still not running native
If you could run Linux on top of an android kernel I would be more convinced, I'm not sure you can
You can do some things with who knows what methods, still can't run native or transparent on android, as far as I can tell
There may be the appearance of running, but this is like running on Windows or Mac no full aces to hardware etc
It's not clear that Linux can operate correctly on android and the mechanism is not clear
It's not clear that multi touch would work
It's not clear that Linux could operate the device
It's also not clear the mechanism for putting Linux on android, it open documented ?
There are a number of questions
What's the compatibility ? Even in user land
Is it desirable for Linux to run on android and not native
What are the drawbacks ?
Would compiz run or multi touch or X11
The benefit of running Linux on a tablet would be to improve the state of the art Linux user interface on tablets
Like iOS did for OS X for example
With the current approach there seems to be no improvement to Linux
Kind of like running dos or Windows on android for example, it would not improve them
Compiz is not Linux. It's just one package that runs on Linux, and there are thousands of others. X11 is not Linux, it's just one method of running a graphical interface, and will probably be deprecated soon, replaced by a more modern package. I'm not sure you understand much of what you're complaining about.
It's not clear that multi touch would work
It's not clear that Linux could operate the device
It's also not clear the mechanism for putting Linux on android, it open documented ?
There are a number of questions
What's the compatibility ? Even in user land
Is it desirable for Linux to run on android and not native
What are the drawbacks ?
Would compiz run or multi touch or X11
The benefit of running Linux on a tablet would be to improve the state of the art Linux user interface on tablets
Like iOS did for OS X for example
With the current approach there seems to be no improvement to Linux
Kind of like running dos or Windows on android for example, it would not improve them
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