The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Sorry but you are just trying to make Bible the historical chronicle. Which is not. I am posting this for others to know there are plenty people all around the World who read Bible in different way.

It is not reading but to be precise listenin to what Bible is saying. In tradition on Eastern Christian Church - at the end of time - this place of suffer will be empty. Christian tradition last for 2000 years. One can't embrace all of it in unique simple interpretation. And also cannot reject it.

Christianity lost very early its connection with Judaism. These words “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick", they in fact did not belong to Jesus. These words belong to ancient Greek philosopher - living long before Jesus birth. There are plenty of such places in Gospels which tells that Jesus Himself was not very faithful Jew. But as I posted earlier: He came from Galilea.

The Christian Bible is a curated compilation of sometimes-ancient documents which were selected from many sources ... and by people who very much "had skin in the game." It includes only those documents which someone considered to be "canonical," with a so-called "Apocrypha" which represents the product of a polite disagreement. It excluded many other documents which have since been lost ... sometimes deliberately so.

None of these documents, including the four "canonical" gospels as well as every other "gospel" now known to exist, was "a contemporary account." That is to say, none of them were written by people who had ever seen "Jesus the Man." (Other than a rather audacious statement, based on "a vision," which was made by a certain Roman citizen who also claimed to be "a Pharisee.") None of these documents completely agree, including the "non-canonical" ones, and of course we could hardly expect them to.

"So, like it or not, here we are." These are our sources. The very-earliest books of course were based on entirely-oral history because the people of those times didn't (as far as we know) read or write. They carefully passed the stories down from father to son, creating "walking books."

And ... pretty much every other religious tradition, as well as non-religious historical ventures, faces exactly the same dilemma. We all see through "mists of time" that are sometimes very dense and incomplete. But we can't "text" those people now and ask them, as much as we might like to.

So, whether you stand on "knowledge" or "faith," it's important to know your sources ... their provenance, their history, and their inherent limits. You're only setting yourself up for self-deception if you haven't done your research.

For instance, I continue to be fascinated by "The Quest for the Historical Jesus." It is speculative, of course, because we have no other option. But I still find the speculations to be engaging. Likewise: "The Judaeo-Christian Bible as Literature." (Likewise the foundational books of many other religions and cultures.)

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P.S.: None of this will hinder any all-powerful eternal god (God?) "who wants to send a message clearly." After all, if necessary "the rocks will cry out." If that is your belief, I do not speak for nor against it. "I have no skin in this game."

Well thats revolutionary. This way you can reject authorship of any book. Vergili was not Vergili, Cycero was not Cycero and probably Einstein also didn't write its paper. In true it was not Einstein but his servant. Cold water on head.

Well, as a matter of point we don't "know" who wrote any book – nor whether the version(s) we have now have been changed over time. It is simply impossible to know that. There never was any "chain of custody" concerning any of this two-thousand year old stuff ... and yes the human situation was different from that of "contemporary pure-Romans" such as Virgil and Cicero, who lived and died on the opposite side of the Mediterranean Sea.

• Many books are conjectured to be "pseudepigraphical" – in other words (say) "a man named 'Luke' did not write 'Luke' as we now know it; maybe several people added sections." Was everything that 'Paul' wrote actually written by just one man? There are various linguistic scholars who suspect things, and who offer reasoning behind their conjectures, but no one "knows" and no one can. I find their conjectures to be engaging although I know that no one will ever "know" if they are right. I do not require to "know."

• Very high-level politics always surrounded "the new State Religion of Rome," so a great many people might have had motivations to put their fingers in the pie. Did it happen? We don't "know."

• We've also got different versions – some complete, some not – of a great deal of Old Testament material, and in other unrelated historical and religious writings.

• With regard to the New Testament writings, in several cases we suspect the existence of a great many source materials that have now been lost – so far as we yet know – forever. But there could always be another pottery jar out there, somewhere in some cave, waiting for a shepherd's stone to be thrown into the entrance . . .

And I think that the simplest thing to do is to simply realize this, and accept it as the "historical status-quo that we are made to deal from."

I have a few interesting books which discuss the provenance of one of the greatest works of the English language: the King James Bible. Perhaps most fascinating is the discussion of how the scholars dealt with sources. It never was a simple act of "translation." It was so much more. And for the most part they were going where no one had ever gone before. They emerged with a feat that perhaps may never be equaled. But many appreciative readers have no idea how they did it.

The part of faith is belief that Gospels are true.

Originally Posted by leclerc78 Drinking is a serious sin in Buddhism. Muslim don't drink either.

It tells a lot about you that you think of alcohol immediately when you see the word "drink".

Originally Posted by business_kid Isn't anybody interested in God anymore?

Which one? There is a growing interest in some gods while others are starving (which is good).

Originally Posted by YesItsMe It tells a lot about you that you think of alcohol immediately when you see the word "drink".

It only tells that there's some Celtic blood in his ancestors. To quote the aforementioned and much maligned Spike Milligan from his book Puckoon:

Many men die of a thirst. The Irish were born with one.

The context made clear he was talking about alcohol.

Faith, Religion and Alcohol - Mega Thread. It does not really matters cause in countries when people don't drink - they use something else. Opium, coffee, tobacco, pipes, heroin - there are plenty things which makes people feel better. I mean that feeling that world now is mine.

I'm rather sure that there is a direct relation between believing in a superior being and taking hard drugs.

lol

Right - a serious question.

Taking into account the Global & ocean warming thread also in General, the widespread species extinctions, land, fisheries & mining exhaustion, increasing desertification, increasing catastrophic weather & wildires, added to the fact that the powers that rule this planet seem to have no serious intention to do anything remedial in time to save the earth, let me ask: Would we agree that mankind is 'ruining the earth?'

Revelation 11:18 reads: "But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Notice also that it said 'ruining the earth - present continuous tense, not 'those who have ruined the earth.' It's clear that we are on the way to ruining the earth.

When you look at Revelation 11:18, all the things going on in the verse seem fairly final, giving folks their reward, etc. For example, the prophet Daniel was told this: (Daniel 12:13): "But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days." So Daniel getting his reward, whatever we believe that is, is in the context of the earth being ruined.

All the world is just imprisoned in particular social-economy system. As long as this system exists it is not possible to revert all negative changes in nature. The recent example is try to enlist Great Coral Reef on UNESCO list. Yet due to objection of Australian government - income from tourism - it didn't happen. So for recent benefits we risk the future degradation of Reef. There are plenty similar examples. Lockdowns showed that the nature can heal itself. The only condition is our withdrawal for period of time with our everyday actions.

Hopefully I think the social-economy system which rules now almost everywhere will cease to exist. As say ancient slavery. I am not communist or socialist. I think that it is not possible for us foretold that new world. As for sure for ancient it was not possible to imagine world without slavery.

Communists, socialist - they like engineers - all the time try to construct future world. With effects we can see on our own eyes.

Ok - you're saying the socio-econom,ic order as we know it will cease to exist, and adding many useful examples of ernvironmental destruction.

Now get off the fence. Yes or no: Is the 'ruining the earth' part of Revelation 11:18 in the process of being fulfilled? Or is it not?

Some person told me Earth is kind of deity. Then I asked him: how Earth can be a God if Universe is our home? We are at the very beginning of our journey.

Good father is person who is taking care about its children. But allows them to grow up in freedom. But sometimes he has to act.

For me God is such Good Father. But we are in reality don't even children - we are just babies don't even capable to walk. We'll learn this.

I don't think Revelation is just prophecy. As in Old Testament. It is something different.

Originally Posted by igadoter Some person told me Earth is kind of deity. Then I asked him: how Earth can be a God if Universe is our home? We are at the very beginning of our journey. Good father is person who is taking care about its children. But allows them to grow up in freedom. But sometimes he has to act. For me God is such Good Father. But we are in reality don't even children - we are just babies don't even capable to walk. We'll learn this. I don't think Revelation is just prophecy. As in Old Testament. It is something different.

Igadoter, you are dodging the question I asked:Yes or no: Is the 'ruining the earth' part of Revelation 11:18 in the process of being fulfilled? Or is it not? If you're afraid to say, please don't reply.