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Old 08-05-2011, 02:52 PM   #2446
moxieman99
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
So human being reached to stage where there will be no "development" Or still there are chance to become superman and fly????
What are you babbling about?
 
Old 08-05-2011, 03:42 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
So human being reached to stage where there will be no "development" Or still there are chance to become superman and fly????
There's always the chance that, following a planet-wide cataclysm, some form of life descended from humanity acquires flight. It would most likely involve destruction of civilization, surviving humans returning to the trees for safety, and some offshoot of that developing the gliding properties of the flying squirrel.

As for whether we've reached a state of no further development... the rate of human evolution has increased over the last several millenia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7132794.stm
 
Old 08-05-2011, 05:39 PM   #2448
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It is also funny that recently Vatican accepted "suddenly" that Aliens can exist(of course saying God created them too cause God can)(just like when asked about dinosaurs) and could be the case of 2012. prophecy which is kinda supported by scientists too cause of the Maya history and such unlike other predictions like May 21, 2011 which is now delayed to October 21...wtf? Can't they just accept they were wrong and just apologize to people? When scientists are wrong they always do that because the point of science is not to replace God(s) but to seek truth, explore myths and sort out facts from fiction.

Last edited by Arcane; 08-05-2011 at 06:12 PM.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 07:52 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by SigTerm
Also, you haven't said how do you know that god doesn't lie to humans.
By reading and then analyzing the advises, rules and regulations (if any), mentioned in the holy books (assuming they are the words of God and also assuming that holy books are the only way god can communicate to humans) and then thinking whether whatever the God has permitted or told the human to do makes some sense or not.

Whether the sayings of God make some sense or not also depends on the environment and culture one is living in. So, what may be correct for one may not make any sense to another.

BTW, for reading/analyzing/thinking about the above mentioned talks of God, one may require to have a certain amount of education and a minimum age limit too.

P.S.
Oh, if by "god doesn't lie to humans", you were referring to the promise of being sent to hell/haven, then I don't have any 'logical' answers to that and personally speaking I don't even care about being sent to hell! :-)
 
Old 08-08-2011, 07:56 AM   #2450
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No. Evolution says that, given the right recipe (known as primordial soup), life will naturally emerge. But to suggest that life will necessarily be human is absurd. Evolution is a dynamic and chaotic process influenced by unique environmental forces that cannot be 100% duplicated, and therefore, its ultimate results cannot be 100% duplicated.

We're also finding that there's a lot of latitude in what determines the "right recipe," because we're finding life forms in places here on Earth where everything we thought we knew told us that life was impossible... complex ecosystems on the ocean floor completely detached from the sun, bacterias living in sulfur acid pools, under the Antarctic ice shelf, in the deepest caves, etc.
Well to me (not to prove GOD existence) I dont think a complex creature like human with excellent design with respect to body structure, skin, bones, internal and external communication system, human feelings emotions, powerful brain with analyzing power, memory etc can emerge by itself. Even if you look at your hand its Marvel piece of engineering. What different type of activities we can perform with them, feel the softness of objects, make a fist and hit hard, pick the big objects like 100 Kg and pick few milligram paper or needle from floor.... Isn't amazing? You compare that with Robot hands. The worlds of medicine and science spend a considerable effort on making an artificial copy of the hand. The robotic hands so far manufactured have the same performance as human hands in terms of power, yet it is hard to say the same thing for sensitivity of touch, perfect maneuverability, and the ability to do diverse jobs.

Many scientists agree that no robot hand can be made having the complete functions of the hand. Engineer Hans J. Schneebeli, who has designed the robotic hand known as "The Karlsruhe Hand", stated that the more he worked on robotic hands, the more he admired the human hand. He added that they still need a lot of time to make possible even a certain number of the jobs accomplished by a human hand.

This is just a small example of hand. Look at your complete body. Its full of such marvelous engineering. I feel amazed when i think of a baby get born out of just few cells.... That process looks very normal & natural but it is one of the complex. How this process could be done automatically first place and even for each and every child, even if you leave for million or billion years. You need to ask this question yourself.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:04 AM   #2451
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
So human being reached to stage where there will be no "development"?
The human mind is still developing. Some of us have grown out of believing in dark-age superstitions.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:11 AM   #2452
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I don't buy it.
A sentient being requires ability to make mistakes in order to learn. Either god is inferior to humans and cannot learn or IT can make mistakes and whatever rule god has made can be result of such mistake. Also, you haven't said how do you know that god doesn't lie to humans.
Dont you think you are not able to understand the power of GOD. If GOD exists, it means He created the entire universe, galaxy, Sun, Stars, Moon, Earth, Day and night, Water, Human being, Animals, Plants, give life to them and not only created them but sustaining them. If this is all what GOD has done, is there any need for HIM to lie to us???

Just think, If God exists what Atheist and those who associate something with GOD will loose compare to if God don't exists what believer going to loose.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:15 AM   #2453
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Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
It is also funny that recently Vatican accepted "suddenly" that Aliens can exist(of course saying God created them too cause God can)(just like when asked about dinosaurs) and could be the case of 2012. prophecy which is kinda supported by scientists too cause of the Maya history and such unlike other predictions like May 21, 2011 which is now delayed to October 21...wtf? Can't they just accept they were wrong and just apologize to people? When scientists are wrong they always do that because the point of science is not to replace God(s) but to seek truth, explore myths and sort out facts from fiction.
Aliens may be tricks of Jinns. God created human being Jinns and Angels. Jinns has free will like human being, while Angels dont have free will. Jinns also has parallel world like human being and are around us. Among them also few are followers and rest are not. Shatan was one of jinn. We can not see them in their original form but they can change their shapes to trick.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:51 AM   #2454
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Well to me (not to prove GOD existence) I dont think a complex creature like human with excellent design with respect to body structure, skin, bones, internal and external communication system, human feelings emotions, powerful brain with analyzing power, memory etc can emerge by itself. Even if you look at your hand its Marvel piece of engineering. What different type of activities we can perform with them, feel the softness of objects, make a fist and hit hard, pick the big objects like 100 Kg and pick few milligram paper or needle from floor.... Isn't amazing? You compare that with Robot hands. The worlds of medicine and science spend a considerable effort on making an artificial copy of the hand. The robotic hands so far manufactured have the same performance as human hands in terms of power, yet it is hard to say the same thing for sensitivity of touch, perfect maneuverability, and the ability to do diverse jobs.
Marvel of engineering, yes. Evidence of supernatural origin, no.

Robotic hands have FAR more power than human hands. That was one of the easiest improvements on the design of the hand for engineers to make, right after durability. Any activity that requires brute strength is very easy to do in robotics, and the robots can do a better job than humans. Any activity that requires repetitiveness is also better done in robotics, because robots are more robust and far less prone to repetitive motion injuries than humans.

Where the human hand still trumps the robotic hand is in the ability to process and react to sensory information, particularly pressure, which is what allows us to perform our more delicate work. That feedback loop is more difficult to duplicate technologically, but certainly not impossible. I just saw an interview with a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient who was sporting a robotic hand that had such a feedback loop which enabled it to shake hands.

Anyone who has ever spent any time doing real work with their hands could give you any number of ways to improve on their design. That's primarily what we're doing when we make tools... inventing ways to overcome the flaws in the human hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Many scientists agree that no robot hand can be made having the complete functions of the hand. Engineer Hans J. Schneebeli, who has designed the robotic hand known as "The Karlsruhe Hand", stated that the more he worked on robotic hands, the more he admired the human hand. He added that they still need a lot of time to make possible even a certain number of the jobs accomplished by a human hand.
This is sheer nonsense. No robot hand can be made having the complete functions of the human hand? Just because we can't do it now doesn't mean it can never be done. Never say never.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
This is just a small example of hand. Look at your complete body. Its full of such marvelous engineering. I feel amazed when i think of a baby get born out of just few cells.... That process looks very normal & natural but it is one of the complex. How this process could be done automatically first place and even for each and every child, even if you leave for million or billion years. You need to ask this question yourself.
This question has been asked, and the answer is DNA.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:55 AM   #2455
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Aliens may be tricks of Jinns. God created human being Jinns and Angels. Jinns has free will like human being, while Angels dont have free will. Jinns also has parallel world like human being and are around us. Among them also few are followers and rest are not. Shatan was one of jinn. We can not see them in their original form but they can change their shapes to trick.
What's interesting to me in this talk of djinns is how it illustrates Islam's attempt to incorporate old superstitions into the new religion. As a native of a mostly Christian nation I'm aware of how Christianity went through the same process, incorporating pagan beliefs and practices to increase its appeal. I was unaware that Islam had done the same.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 08:58 AM   #2456
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Well to me ... I dont think a complex creature like human ... can emerge by itself. Even if you look at your hand its Marvel piece of engineering... Isn't amazing?... Its full of such marvelous engineering. I feel amazed...
This is known as the Divine fallacy, or argument from incredulity, which as described in the Skeptics Dictionary as a type of non sequitur that goes something like this:
"I can't figure this out, so God must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, God did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, God did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, God is behind it."
 
Old 08-08-2011, 09:00 AM   #2457
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Just think, If God exists what Atheist and those who associate something with GOD will loose compare to if God don't exists what believer going to loose.
If God exists, there are thousands of different ideas out there on what his nature is, how to please him, and how to gain access to Heaven (assuming there even is such a thing, not all believers agree). So your odds of making him happy are pretty poor.

If he does not exist, then you're wasting a lot of the precious time and energy. An atheist will make the most of this life either way. But if there's no afterlife, you've wasted a lot of what you had for empty promise of something better.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 10:15 AM   #2458
ShaanAli
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Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
What's interesting to me in this talk of djinns is how it illustrates Islam's attempt to incorporate old superstitions into the new religion. As a native of a mostly Christian nation I'm aware of how Christianity went through the same process, incorporating pagan beliefs and practices to increase its appeal. I was unaware that Islam had done the same.
I dont know much about Christianity.
Jinns carry similar parallel world and they dont interfere in human business. They are created from fire and been created with same purpose as human. Based on their deeds they will also be rewarded hell or heaven.

If you consider this as superstition, probably Angels and even GOD also should be superstition in your dictionary, since you cant see them either.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 10:38 AM   #2459
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Well to me (not to prove GOD existence) I dont think a complex creature like human with excellent design with respect to body structure, skin, bones, internal and external communication system, human feelings emotions, powerful brain with analyzing power, memory etc can emerge by itself.
I think you don't understand "millions of years" part. Actually first lifeform is said to emerge 3.8 billions of years ago, and given total amount of time anything could evolve. 3.8 billions of years is 3800000000 years. Ancient Mesopotamia ("cradle of civilization") appeared only 6000 years ago. Compare and think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Many scientists agree that no robot hand can be made having the complete functions of the hand.
No, this is incorrect. Maybe currently no robotic hand can replace human hand, but it is very likely to change in the future. If you take in account that all necessary technologies aren't that old (some of them are less than 100 years old), current prothesic achievements are already very impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Dont you think you are not able to understand the power of GOD.
No, I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
If GOD exists, it means He created the entire universe, galaxy, Sun, Stars, Moon, Earth, Day and night, Water, Human being, Animals, Plants, give life to them and not only created them but sustaining them. If this is all what GOD has done, is there any need for HIM to lie to us???
Of course there is. Maybe god created everything simply to destroy everything (in most painful way possible) for its own amusement. Maybe it enjoys tricking humans. If there is a god and it created universe then it should be able to easily destroy everything and start over on a whim or to develop a lie so sophisticated that no human will be able to distinguish it from truth. Or maybe you're a result of gods failed experiment. There is absolutely no reason for a god to tell you the truth or care about you or human morals. You're assuming that a "god" (if exists) is a "caring father" or something. I see no reason to think this way. A lot of processes that happen in nature involve quite a lot of cruelty (especially if you take a look at insect world). There is absolutely no reason to think that a god (if exists) is not a sadistic raving lunatic by human standards. There is also absolutely no reason to trust your creator (IF there is a creator), because creator's motives are unknown to you.
 
Old 08-08-2011, 10:49 AM   #2460
ShaanAli
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Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
Marvel of engineering, yes. Evidence of supernatural origin, no.

Robotic hands have FAR more power than human hands. That was one of the easiest improvements on the design of the hand for engineers to make, right after durability. Any activity that requires brute strength is very easy to do in robotics, and the robots can do a better job than humans. Any activity that requires repetitiveness is also better done in robotics, because robots are more robust and far less prone to repetitive motion injuries than humans.
Go and ask the person who lost his hand and got replacement. Which one he want now robotic or his original hand.


Quote:
Where the human hand still trumps the robotic hand is in the ability to process and react to sensory information, particularly pressure, which is what allows us to perform our more delicate work. That feedback loop is more difficult to duplicate technologically, but certainly not impossible. I just saw an interview with a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient who was sporting a robotic hand that had such a feedback loop which enabled it to shake hands.
Difficult to duplicate, but not impossible. Agree. So behind that technical hand how many brains, how much efforts put compare to evolution "automatic" development.... Still you need to realize how that marvel piece of engineering got developed without any brain behind, without any support, without any blueprint.... HOW?


Quote:
Anyone who has ever spent any time doing real work with their hands could give you any number of ways to improve on their design. That's primarily what we're doing when we make tools... inventing ways to overcome the flaws in the human hand.
Not agree. Everything has got limit. We are creating tools to help us further. And if we go as per evolution, why we are not able to develop those tools in our body. With my knowledge last several million years we dont have even single minor development in our body towards that. Isn't?

Quote:
This is sheer nonsense. No robot hand can be made having the complete functions of the human hand? Just because we can't do it now doesn't mean it can never be done. Never say never.
This is what i am trying to say. When we are so much in advance stage of science today. Human brains with science can not produce that now, how come that got created by itself without any support, without anybody behind. Knock your head buddy.

I am not saying science can not create. May be it can create after 10 years or 50. But behind that there will be several scientists brain and science. What evolution had????? You have no answer.... So you will say "time"....


Quote:
This question has been asked, and the answer is DNA.
From where first DNA came, that still has no answer.

---------- Post added 08-08-11 at 07:50 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
The human mind is still developing. Some of us have grown out of believing in dark-age superstitions.
Not developing..... its gaining knowledge....... both are different.
 
  


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