The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by Jeebizz Either that, or we will be the death of us all. I do not hold out much hope.

The key phrase is "no matter how many generations it takes". It is extremely difficult for modern man (of any time, really) to comprehend what it was like to live in previous generations. It should be obvious that "short and brutish" describes a great deal of human history especially for what were considered the lower classes, which almost always referred to "the working class" - laborers, whether "free" or slaves. Civilization and technology may have increased alienation but it has also increased options and reduced fear of coercion, other than economic. It is difficult to imagine advance or loss because we live in context of our times.

The Roman Empire, often considered a high water mark in civilization and of great benefit to barbarians, is unlikely to feel that way to us, let alone those barbarians that preferred their old ways. Despite the number of bath houses I imagine all cities and larger settlements had a stench that a modern man could simply not stomach, were it possible to "visit", but if you grew up with that, some people still found purpose, satisfaction if not happiness. It's just that it is far more difficult in a society that embraces any manner of caste system, which is probably why most of those who believe in past lives almost always imagine themselves someone rich and famous.

There has been progress, but as you note, there is a danger we will arrange our own demise either actively or passively ignoring the obvious. That is, we must all live in the world and imagining we can carve out some safe place at others' expense, is counter-productive and foolhardy. IMHO the world and living in it would be better if there were no poverty and that can happen once cheap, renewable energy is a reality. The Monroe Doctrine has proven just as absurd on an individual level as on a national one. It might take thousands of years but it is very likely to occur sometime.

Originally Posted by George_Bernard_Shaw “The greatest of our evils and the worst of our crimes is poverty.”

@ sundialsvcs - I firmly respect your views and certainly your research, but there are a few fine points I would enjoy discussing. AFAIK It isn't even known for certain that a Jesus of Nazareth actually existed but it isn't even that important since it is some pastiche of ideas attributed to him that lives on.

Similarly the Romans didn't completely disappear any more than Ancient Greece did. It isn't as if they never existed, even if The Dark Ages buried much of it for a time. Also while the Western Roman Empire began to disintegrate by the 5th Century, the Eastern lasted almost till the 16th Century. This certainly facilitated the wide and long term spread of Christianity, even bolstering the West until the age of Colonialism spread it even further.

As for "the most influential human being of all time" that can possibly be attributed to a 600 year head start and the fact as you state of benefiting from being the Official religion of an Empire that at one time governed some 21% of all humans on Earth. Note that the percentage of Earth's inhabitants that are Christian has not actually risen much above that 21%, now at 31% after nearly 2000 years. One must argue that that "leg up" may contribute to the fact that the religion of Muhammed today comprises (only?) 1.6 billion followers while Christians comprise 2.2 billion, less than a 10 percent difference. Currently, the next 2 categories of "followers" are Secular (non-religious) and Hindu. If a Deity influenced the growth of Christianity did he/she/it also influence the others? or are there multiple Deities at work?

It seems at best a logical conundrum and given the value of Occam's Razor, perhaps more likely that no deity, whether one exists or not, interferes in the affairs of Man.

We'll also need to keep it habitable, at least until "we*" all wind up in (space-like) earth-suits when going out; ê: ... pulled out of the fossil fuel companies ... divestment movement ; http://www.ewao.com/a/1-defund-oil-w...ardo-decaprio/
Fleet Farming Turning Unused Lawns Into Farms! ; https://youtu.be/xDRAxFew7JM
&c...

@#6842&c:::
"Deities" that can only communicate through, what are they called now?

Pray to yourself, bow to yourself, God lives in you as you.

(Plz don't go robbing banks, and murdering people you don't like or doing any other jackass shit simply because I said you are God)

Originally Posted by ugjka Pray to yourself, bow to yourself, God lives in you as you. (Plz don't go robbing banks, and murdering people you don't like or doing any other jackass shit simply because I said you are God)

Nice... I agree with parts of that!

I submit again: If a "creator" made us to evolve then perhaps it wants to commit suicide?

Originally Posted by enorbet You miss my point. I am not against weapon ownership but there is a very real difference between not only the justification but the advisability of gun ownership by rural families who need them on a daily basis and who grow up with training in use and responsibility and city dwellers who have less need and are most often completely ignorant and unskilled in proper use. There is also the difference in response time of neighbors and police to consider, affecting any perceived need.

I disagree all it takes to shoot a gun is aim and pull. If a person who lived in Chicago or any city for that matter, but especially Chicago the highest murder capital in America. I believe anyone there should be allowed to buy a gun. Simple as that, it our right since the founding of America. I would also contest and say people in cities are in even more need of firearms, due to the overwhelming amount of gangs that reside there. Who get their guns from the black market.. Firearm control effectively does nothing to help the situation...

"Defend against tyrannical governments" ? Do you really not realize how antiquated and absurd that concept has become? There are extremely few governments anymore that are so small and so weak that even hundreds of revolutionaries can possibly hope to overcome by head-on violent confrontation that the notion is delusional. This is not to say there are no means, just that guns no longer are a key factor since they require line-of-sight proximity. If you were a citizen of, for example, North Korea, exactly how far do you imagine even the most modern assault rifle would get you?

We are not North Korea we have laws in place to protect our rights.. North Korean citizens are the most controlled locked down society in the world, and I have no clue if they can even get a firearm anywhere.. Firearms in our case will help immensely, as how else are wars fought? In terms of our government God forbid anything were to happen, but I don't think much will happen.. Our military are people for the most part, people with integrity, and common-sense to know not harm the citizens of this beautiful country under any order..

Peaceful? Do you not know anything of The Crusades or mere recently of the callous, inhumane treatment of so many people who happen to subscribe to Islam? Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are just tips of the iceberg. Most of these radicals can be divided into two types, those who have suffered some personal indignity (including death of loved ones they see as murder) and those who simply align us with Israel since we support them which they view as 'against us". However if we weren't there in force, do you really think "against us" would be at the level that it is today?

How many years ago was the Crusades? In terms of today it has nothing to to do with religion, but it's more about the state of the country, and it's government's responsibility to uphold order.. This sort of thing does not happen in the US. We are a nation of equality for all men and women who may practice their religion freely, whatever that may be as long as it doesn't harm others.

This crap is just an extenuation of Manifest Destiny and still just as misguided, self-aggrandizing and stupid as it was when justifying atrocities against Native Americans.

The Native Americans were constantly at war with each other, what difference did it make that we came in the picture? If we didn't some other country would have came and done the same thing, and we wouldn't be here today.. It's not like it was genocide, we made negotiations on peace afterwords, and even gave them free college...

Ending "savagery" is the biggest "crusade" but is in stone in most religions! Perhaps veganism can prevail once we kill all them ^damned^'~,. dirty apes, lions, tigers and bears oh my!

“Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses.”

― Plato

Originally Posted by enorbet With that I wholeheartedly agree! Maybe you might agree that argument can have good purpose as long as animosity is "left at the door". My point was that violence works but as civilization progresses it works less and less well, being replaced by understanding, tolerance, negotiation, and cooperation.

I agree bro I just sense that there's no meeting on common ground here, hence why I said I'm tired of arguing..

The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.

—Aristotle

Who are nuclear weapons scientists? | Hugh Gusterson | TEDxFoggyBottom
https://youtu.be/co2enjjt3J0

Big bada boom!

Originally Posted by bluesclues227 The Native Americans were constantly at war with each other, what difference did it make that we came in the picture? If we didn't some other country would have came and done the same thing, and we wouldn't be here today.. It's not like it was genocide, we made negotiations on peace afterwords, and even gave them free college...

Oh, it most-definitely was genocide. A primary source of food, the buffalo, was exterminated. Blankets infected with smallpox were handed-out as gifts. Lacking immunity to western diseases, the Natives were purposely decimated.

... but, we've wandered well away from "Faith and Religion," haven't we?

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs ... ... but, we've wandered well away from "Faith and Religion," haven't we?

I wish!

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