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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.82%
Deist 18 3.09%
Theist 23 3.95%
Agnostic 120 20.58%
Atheist 254 43.57%
Voters: 583. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #5116
jamison20000e
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Angry


☠ Anyone who argues (or simply agrees) and can't completely understand the otherside is a f-ng moron and the reason for it all... ☠

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-23-2014 at 11:35 AM. Reason: ☠
 
Old 08-23-2014, 03:28 PM   #5117
jefro
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Sure turned into a bad discussion.

Can't you guys be polite??? That wasn't directed an any ONE person. A lot of posts with hurtful intent are in this thread.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 05:21 PM   #5118
jamison20000e
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Do children learn best from drill sergeants or fluffy symbolic bunnies?
 
Old 08-23-2014, 06:15 PM   #5119
enorbet
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Drill Bunnies?

Actually I think neither. I contend that people learn best from scholars that are strict about process and research, but never condescending or mean.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 06:21 PM   #5120
jamison20000e
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According to freedom-fighters\terrorists the best way to learn is torture... and they exist so?!.

http://dailybunny.org/wp-content/upl...-1-650x431.jpg

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-23-2014 at 06:27 PM.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 06:25 PM   #5121
enorbet
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BTW, Jamison, I couldn't see to whom you were responding... what set you off. It would be helpful if you could quote or @name so it is easier to follow. I know I can be dense so I'm not "talking from on high" just a friendly suggestion.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 06:34 PM   #5122
jamison20000e
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It was kinda a random rant (c'est la vie,) on the bus I've been listening to ""TTC" - Argumentation: The Study of Effective Reasoning" guess I failed? ;P
 
Old 08-23-2014, 06:46 PM   #5123
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
According to freedom-fighters\terrorists the best way to learn is torture... and they exist so?!.

http://dailybunny.org/wp-content/upl...-1-650x431.jpg

The pic made me chuckle. As regards the concept of torture, I suspect this and cliches like "at least under <insert dictator> the trains ran on time" when in fact they didn't and don't anymore than it was wise to use slave labor to make weapons. Maybe I'm too idealistic but Star Trek: TNG has a terrific episode (Chain of Command) about torture in which Capt. Picard is being tortured by a Cardassian and acts out a great conflict, but more, acts as Gene Roddenberry's "trumpet" to point out that information gathered by torture is inherently unreliable whether the victim breaks or not. It is however quite an eye-opener if you google the several videos of it and note some of the comments. One such comment is from a member called 1701Tex whose avatar is Blue Thunder who says "Yet another Picard wussy moment" which made me laugh out loud while shaking my head in despair.

THERE


ARE


F O U R


L I G H T S !!!
 
Old 08-23-2014, 07:07 PM   #5124
jamison20000e
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Of course torture (like the death-penalty\***) never works! Does the outcome really matter to the torturer and\or misinformed?

Did not recently watch the whole episode, just, but engineering knows all lights are at slightly different volts (by the way (like me ).)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-24-2014 at 08:18 AM.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 09:18 PM   #5125
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Quote:
Of course torture never works
http://www.eastmanleather.com/blog/w...0/001rqr10.jpg

I don't expect you to understand me never being to parris island or camp pendelton.
Torture works just fine. Especially on your own soldiers to make them killing machines.



That is why a person can cut off a persons head on youtube and broadcast it worldwide and go right to sleep afterwards
and sleep like a baby.

Only soldiers and former soldiers know where I am coming from.
My Mom had a thousand yard stare also. As well as my Dad.

Last edited by rokytnji; 08-23-2014 at 09:19 PM.
 
Old 08-23-2014, 11:33 PM   #5126
jamison20000e
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Cırɔulaɹ (tumbling around.)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-25-2014 at 07:02 PM.
 
Old 08-24-2014, 06:13 AM   #5127
BowCatShot
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Don't ever mess with the Mormons when they come to your door. Be polite and nice. I did otherwise once and got into an arguement. Next day, Monday, I got up to go to work only to find my truck and my wife's car covered with eggs, toilet paper, and shaving cream. Never happened before or since.
 
Old 08-24-2014, 08:17 AM   #5128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
I don't expect you to understand me never being to parris island or camp pendelton.
Torture works just fine. Especially on your own soldiers to make them killing machines.
While boot camp qualifies as "tortuous" it is not technically torture/rendition since there is no desire to extract information. What boot camp is all about is conditioning - the whip and the carrot, because one wishes the "horse" to become compliant enough to avoid the whip and seek the carrot in the direction the driver wishes to go ie: destroy the enemy. Also, because recruits, whether volunteer or drafted, are still some degree of "Us", not "Them" there is already some pre-existing compliance in place and an emotional bent to work with. This is entirely different from attempting to force a "Them" to reveal information when he knows two things

1) What information his captor torturers want will harm everything he holds dear

2) Giving the enemy information they want will not stop the torture (which has only served to reinforce the conditioning that the Enemy are evil brutes who hold nothing sacred and who would destroy everything you are and stand for) excepting possibly the release of death. The only real remaining hope is that your team will somehow save you, since the enemy has demonstrated they take pleasure in your pain and only wish you a long, slow death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
That is why a person can cut off a persons head on youtube and broadcast it worldwide and go right to sleep afterwards
and sleep like a baby.

Only soldiers and former soldiers know where I am coming from.
My Mom had a thousand yard stare also. As well as my Dad.
This is the far-reaching, long term (and apparently hidden from most) cost of torture and the death penalty. It is not only what it does to enemies/criminals/prisoners (Them) but what it does to soldiers/guards/executioners (and witnesses), (Us). This is the destruction of basic Humanity and the forces that drive Civilization. Nothing is "solid" anymore but Us and Them. Once experience and conditioning shows that under the surface, everyone's life and livelihood is up-for-grabs at the whim of some "Them" and one can become a "Them" at such whims, there is no Life, Liberty and Justice to be found anywhere..... thus the 1000 yard stare.

I'm not even touching on the reinforcement in disregarding one's own faculty of reason and principles and instead, blindly accepting Authority, but that is at the heart of this thread as well since Organized Religion similarly requires suspension of disbelief and autonomous judgment
 
Old 08-25-2014, 04:11 AM   #5129
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It is very simple. Power corrupts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5PlJiqOnk
so we need system to strictly monitor and control it or even reject it. If humanity were created they should achieve potential on their own without too much interference just like it should be. But we need some assistance to fix Earth we live upon - too much BS is around.
 
Old 08-25-2014, 11:44 AM   #5130
jamison20000e
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We were created...
from infinite random "chaos."

I think the silliest religions are the ones created
more "resonantly" (give or take) altho
they all tickle me.

[URL="http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_power_of_the_witch_super_rare_british_witchcraft_documentary_from_1971"]http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_power_of_the_witch_super_rare_british_witchcraft_documentary_from_1971[/URL]

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-25-2014 at 12:00 PM.
 
  


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