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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-24-2003, 07:11 PM   #226
Scruff
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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Stoughton, MA
Distribution: Gentoo x86_64 & PPC
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But if you are not
a programmer, then customization doesnít compare
to the vastness of XP. And yes
you can customize way more that just the themes
and colors on XP.


C'mon man. I am a relative newbie to linux, and think XP is a great O.S. ( I have even started a website dedicated to tweaking it for performance), but there is NO WAY it offers the flexability and customization options that linux does. You just have to go a little beyond the "point and click" attitude that get people by in windows.

As far as the "Microsoft World" goes, the most important thing they learned is how to completely monopolize a market and manipulate public opinion (while they have been losing ground on the latter).

Last edited by Scruff; 09-24-2003 at 07:20 PM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 07:38 PM   #227
kev82
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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Lancaster, England
Distribution: Debian Etch, OS X 10.4
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this is directed to linuxgamer.

i am a programmer but i am not an anti windows person and am quite happy with win2k.

when your talking about customisation you seem to be referring to the gui, that really has nothing to do with the operating system itsself, i have 2 machines that dont even have a gui. my point is windows xp may be more configurable than linux as far as the gui goes(i dont agree but will concede as i dont have enough experience to argue) but there is more configuration in the /proc directory than windows will ever offer.

and as far as backwards compatibility goes, its really a terrible thing, backwards compatibilty combined with closed source programs caused

1) the A20 line not being enabled by default
2) processors starting in real mode
3) windows 95, 98, ME
4) etc...

windows xp is based on the nt line, not on the 9x line, they finally gave up on compatibility because the 9x series was such a mess

i feel i should comment on your lack of knowledge about the following points

Heck you can't:

-auto-arrange icons on the desktop
(you have to go in and click the arrange options)


that would depend on the program that manages your desktop, i use dfm which doesnt do it but im 99% sure rox and idesk do.

-you cant even drag and drop icons to and from the start bar

can you do this in windows(cant do it in 2k)? what does it do?

-most web sites have Microsoft specific code in them
and these people are not going to change their sites
to suit Linux browsers, not to mention calling for true type fonts


any website that i cant view with mozilla loses my business, any website i cant view with w3m gets an email. you think this microsoft specific code is a good thing? isnt html supposed to be platform independant?

People are not perfect:
-there is no rollback feature or
"use last known good configuration" on Linux
so if you mess up something, you are probably
screwed if you didnít make a backup


what do you think last known configuration is? its an attempt to back up system files. anything that stops you from making backups cant be a good thing, system restore aint no good when your hd motor burns out.

distributions like mandrake are not a good thing, they are an awful thing, they provide the illusion that linux is like windows and it isnt as far as im concerned the sooner they die the better.

sorry for being off-topic btw

Last edited by kev82; 09-24-2003 at 07:59 PM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 07:44 PM   #228
Scruff
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Location: Stoughton, MA
Distribution: Gentoo x86_64 & PPC
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Just for the record, I am not anti-windows either. ALL os's have their place and I have enjoyed using all of them. I do use Linux the most though, and might be a little anti-microsoft but I still think XP (and 2000) are great os's. Aside from XP reporting probably way more personal info than I am comfortable with....

Oh yea, Kev: Great closing line! (you see I'm using Slack )

Last edited by Scruff; 09-24-2003 at 07:46 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2003, 03:33 PM   #229
linuxgamer
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Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: SuSE, Linspire, Fedora, RH Enterprise
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Anyone here use SuSE 8.2 ?
I think it may be the best distro yet.
It is very user friendly like XP.
The only hard part is the install because
they make you install using a boot disk iso
and ftp. I posted earlier on how to install it.

Also Mozilla Firebird is a new browser
similar to IE, which should help us IE addicts
to be more comfortable :P

Unlike Mozilla 1.4 which is like netscape.

SuSE is also way less buggy than Mandrake 9.1+
 
Old 09-25-2003, 04:39 PM   #230
fatgod
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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Distribution: Suse 7.2, Gentoo 1.4, Solaris 9
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Whats so hard about it? Is it hard because you dont know it? Well duh.

imagine that you knew nothing about computers and someone gave you a PC and a windows disk and said. "here use this." Oh, you magicaly going to go forth and install it and download drivers and fix problems? hahaha, funny funny stuff.
 
Old 09-25-2003, 04:56 PM   #231
linuxgamer
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Distribution: SuSE, Linspire, Fedora, RH Enterprise
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatgod
Whats so hard about it? Is it hard because you dont know it? Well duh.

imagine that you knew nothing about computers and someone gave you a PC and a windows disk and said. "here use this." Oh, you magicaly going to go forth and install it and download drivers and fix problems? hahaha, funny funny stuff.
Have you ever installed SuSE 8.2, maybe you didnt see my previous post?

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...927#post497927

I am also glad you seem to be born with Linux code in your blood
and I am sure you were never a newbie, right? Na, all Linux gods
think they were never newbies once too, its an ego thing. Sheesh

Last edited by linuxgamer; 09-25-2003 at 04:58 PM.
 
Old 09-25-2003, 05:00 PM   #232
linuxgamer
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Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: SuSE, Linspire, Fedora, RH Enterprise
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With XP, Mandrake, and RedHat...
click click boom ur done

If you can get past loading the network card module
and find an ftp server that is not to busy to login to,
the rest of the SuSE install is a breeze.
 
Old 09-25-2003, 05:56 PM   #233
bitterjack
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
Distribution: RedHat 9
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Has anybody ever seen those grease monkeys that work on their cars all weekend even though it runs fine? They are tweeking something to get more power/fuel efficiency/improve performance. Hey, if that is what floats your boat....
Have you ever seen those people that sit in front of their computers trying to improve performance of their PCs?
My point? Linux -and all of its distros- is the tuner OS of PCs.
Each individual person can tweak their own computer to achieve their own goals. Just like those gearheads on the weekends.
I couldn't imagine trying to tweak a PC with an OS whose manufactuer doesn't want the general public to know about the registry (root in Linux) let alone for John Q Public to start changing it.
Imagine if car makers started telling you that you could not change anything about their cars - floor mats, air freshners, engine performance, etc... Or how about not being able to change anything in your house -wall color, window shades, anything. Nobody would stand for it.
Yet somehow everyone is okay with M$ telling everyone how there computers should work
 
Old 09-26-2003, 02:12 AM   #234
linuxgamer
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Quote:
Originally posted by bitterjack
Has anybody ever seen those grease monkeys that work on their cars all weekend even though it runs fine?
I hear ya man, I am a tweaker. I break things, fix them
and imporve upon them.
 
Old 09-26-2003, 06:37 AM   #235
CharlesW
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Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 13

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A Linux installation MUST be a no-brainer initially, so that a complete beginner like myself can at least get a fully working system. Then, I can explore the inner intricacies piece by piece and hopefully become an expert, and actually enjoy its charms(?!).

I have been struggling to get a network printer to work. Trying to navigate the literature and surfing the web for clues as to why the printer is not working is almost impenetratable for me. Soon my frustrations will cause me to give up on Linux, and this is a pity.

I am sure there are many would-be Linus users like me who are put off because they can't get an initial setup working properly.

C
 
Old 09-26-2003, 03:16 PM   #236
linuxgamer
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I am sure one of these so call Linux "gods" who know everything
about Linux could assist you with your network printer setup.

Are there drivers available for your printer for Linux?
 
Old 09-26-2003, 03:55 PM   #237
CharlesW
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Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 13

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No - nobody responded!
Yes - there seem to be drivers...

The jobs just sit (stuck) in the spool queue

This is a good example of the point I made earlier. Untangling the web is impossible for beginners like me. It is a catch22 - you need to be an expert in order to learn how to become one...

C
 
Old 09-27-2003, 09:23 AM   #238
penngray
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Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3

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Quote:
My point is not that Windows doesn't work well (sometimes) or that Windows doesn't have some great applications (it most surely does). It's simply that I cannot use Microsoft products anymore and feel I'm not doing something deeply immoral. Buying into that kind of greed and into that kind of attitude that treats all users like PROBABLE criminals (not just potential ones) is something I will not do any longer, period. I will stop using computers first. I made that decision some time ago and I am sticking to it.

deeply immoral, c'mon!!! If you are going to go down that path, Check the cloths you were, the car you drive and the goods you consume every day of your life. Do you smoke?? talk about a morale dilemma for you and you are living is some strange place if you think using windows is immoral.

I have been a windows user for a long time and will continue to be a windows user, I like making $$$.

I have had Linux (RH 8) for a little while now because I like the idea of something free!! Its it a better OS? well that is all just an OPINION. For me the answer is NO, XP does everything I need and it does much more than Linux. Linux is a "pain" to configure, we don't have time to search through the "on-line" documentation. I feel the lack of examples and help tools is limiting Linux's mass appeal. I don't have time to search 1 hour to learn how to configure my apache server to run at startup because I believe this is a configuration the server should know. I use RPM and it installs programs (where? who knows). No questions just does it! Does it change the services created for earlier versions of the software nope!!

1. I upgraded Apache but the httpd service still starts up the old one. I SHOULDN'T have to re-configure that
2. I upgraded Python but the old Python still was running everywhere. Sigh.......why????? and still now Apache runs Python 2.2.1 and not 2.2.3......

This is a Linux forum so there is going to be a "BIAS" and a "motherly" protection of Linux but lets not go overboard with words of "immoral" and "Easy to use".
 
Old 09-27-2003, 11:44 AM   #239
Tesl
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Durham, UK
Distribution: Slackware 9, Mandrake 9.1
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before i post, i better point out that iv only read bits of this thread and not the entire thing (im going out, but il read it when i get home)

Firstly, the installation. The first OS i ever installed was Suse 8.1, and i didnt even understand what partitioning was all about when i started. I managed to install and get a fully working system, and i fell in love. RedHat and Mandrake are exceptionally easy to install, and i dont understand how anybody could find problems in it. I found WinXP a more difficult install than any of the above three distributions. My point id make here is, most home users will never have to install XP. Maybe in a few years the home user wont need to install their Linux distribution either, since it would come preinstalled

Is Linux more difficult? for some things yes, for others not. I installed RedHat out the box, which came with nearly every piece of software i could ever want. I installed it, got networking right out the box, and all was well. Installation of programs is always easy, unless you hit dependancy hell. Remember that Linux is relatively new, and the open source model is yet to truely evolve. Dependancy Hell will be something we will all remember and laugh about in a few years time, either because of an improved rpm system or apt-get. Installation of software can be more difficult, but i only had real problems with RedHat.

Did i read somewhere that the XP desktop can be customised more than the Linux GUI? i hope i didnt, since the Linux GUI can be truely customisable. Im running Fluxbox now and have a lot of tweaks to make with it yet, but it already looks far superior to winXP. WinXP cant be majorly customised, it will look ugly whatever you do.

The most common Linux problem is with Hardware. This is another thing which is constantly improving, and the more Linux digs in to M$ monopoly the faster that will change. Once Linux becomes a true alternative (maybe once it owns about 10% of the desktop market, or all of the server market) then manufacturers will release their own drivers for the hardware. Once that happens, Hardware issues will be a thing of the past.

Linux has a few disadvantages, but its only real fallbacks are compatibility with software and hardware. Remember that Linux is relatively young, its expanding faster and faster (only in the past few years are people really beginning to recognise it as an alternative) and will cope with those problems. As things evolve, Linux will become the number one choice.

Id like to point out that i am a bit geekish, but only recently. Iv ran Linux for a good year or so now, and not had any issues with it all. XP has given me hell, with either virii (got loads of the damn things) or with things just "breaking" for no reason. That annoys me more than anything. Windows decided it wasnt going to allow Networking to work, and no matter what i do it still doesnt. Networking suddenly worked for a day, then broke the next day without me even touching the settings.

Iv had way more problems with windows, because when you hit a problem its nigh unfixable. Linux has been far easier for me, and in a week il be running nothing but Linux.

Its an unfortunate thing that people in this day and age dont want to have to think when setting up and configuring their system. A Pre-configured Linux system is usable for anybody. The thing is, Linux is different, which is why some people find it hard. Its actually a far more logical system.
 
Old 09-27-2003, 11:56 AM   #240
MAWipf
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Denver
Distribution: RH9
Posts: 14

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I am very new to Linux, 1 day in fact. I am having some issues, but if I remember my first computer, a 386 with 4 megs RAM running DOS, I spent at least 1000 hours learning. So far, Linux has been 10 x easier than that. Windows is still easier, but that is because we have been using it for such a long time and are familiar with it. I am going to give linux my undivided attention for a while before I make the decision, but look, I am online, using a wireless connection, typing in a web browser in just one day.....now if I only could get that damn NVIDIA driver installed correctly so I could get to the console and really learn somthing....
 
  


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