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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-12-2003, 12:11 AM   #211
me23
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Registered: Jul 2003
Distribution: SuSE 8.2
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Is there a way I can say: I'm a newbie/novice, but No. I am happy with it the way it is.

 
Old 09-24-2003, 05:37 AM   #212
linuxgamer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Parr
neenee,

If Windows is like a Car without a Steering wheel then Linux is like a car that requires a 10 page manual for starting the Ignition, using the Turn signal, and stepping on the gas or break.

Would you want to drive a car that took 8hrs to learn how to drive just to make a 15 minute trip?

I couldn't resist...
BAHAHAH, so true
Alot of Linux fans in here I see.

I have been considering the switch and have tinkered with
Mandrake 9.1 and 9.2RC2
and RedHat 9
It is an interesting OS that reminds me of going back to my
DOS dayZ.

There is only 1 reason I want to switch to Linux for desktop use, security. After the port 135+ problem that MS overlooked since 1995 that allows a hacker into your machine.

I love XP, I have 6 XP home/business machines and 7 linux servers.

Unlike most people, my XP computers are integrated into my home
entertainment center. And Microsoft has just released a new version of XP.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...rs/default.asp

Basically Linux seems about 8-10 years behind the productivity
and usability of XP. Especially for multimedia and gaming.

Heck you can't:

-auto-arrange icons on the desktop
(you have to go in and click the arrange options)

-you cant even drag and drop icons to and from the start bar

-most web sites have Microsoft specific code in them
and these people are not going to change their sites
to suit Linux browsers, not to mention calling for true type fonts

People are not perfect:
-there is no rollback feature or
"use last known good configuration" on Linux
so if you mess up something, you are probably
screwed if you didn’t make a backup

Mouse tracking is not near as smooth as XP no matter
how much you tweak it in Red Hat.

However Mandrake 9.1+ has improved mouse tracking
thankful to KDE 3.1+

Red Hat at least has excellent security updates.

Whereas Mandrake still has a major problem in the update
area. You can create a cronjob (which is like task scheduler)
but this is to complicated for most users.

It seems to me that some people here are realistic that Linux GUI’s
need major improvement for ease of use. And there are people
here who think that Linux is just dandy the way it is.

Codeweavers has done an excellent job of getting MS applications
to work on Linux. It is to bad the Linux and MS community couldn’t
get together and make a more secure, yet extremely usable GUI.

There is not much standardization in Linux, everyone seems to
have their own way of making installers. Changing a driver
is a pain, if you think installing a new driver should take
more than 2 minutes for someone just starting to use Linux
then you are wrong.

How would you like to have to crank your car before it started
on a cold winter morning instead of just turning the key.

To me Linux is a step back in performance, but a step forward
in security.

As far as stability? What was the last version of windows that
you people used? Windows 95 was a major transition over
DOS/WFW3.11. And it improved a little with 98, 98SE, ME.
When Windows 2000 was released it became much more stable,
however not necessarily secure. With the Release of XP Pro,
and the new multimedia version, it has become not just an operating
system capable of a few simple graphics, spread sheets and work processing,
but it has become a revolutionary tool for productivity, multimedia, design,
programming and more. No, I don’t work for MS. hehe

Mandrake is becoming a nice tweaked out GUI, similar to XP,
but still has a long way to go.

Linux will still remain my server software since it is still
a bit more secure. I will continue to struggle between XP
and Linux for home/desktop use.

Last edited by linuxgamer; 09-24-2003 at 07:15 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 07:23 AM   #213
perry
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Distribution: Slackware 12.0
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have you tried Mandrake ?

hi there

i greatly appreciate your thoughts on Linux and the need to be easier to the everyday end user. up until i ran into mandrake your concerns were pretty much my concerns but companies like mandrake have made that their focal point for the last five years and today we get to benefit from it

to me, linux is now much better to the end user. it's faster and easier to trouble shoot. true, some of the problems and error messages might seem a little techi, but 9 times out of ten, if you take whatever error message your getting or even just a question on how to set something up, all you got to do is send that over google.com, linux<whatever>.com or even mandrake expert and chances are somebody somewhere dealth with the exact same issue and came up with a solution.

further, linux rewards you by being so much closer to the machine and therefore letting get the benefits of knowing whats going on with your operating system. better yet, your system is not off somewhere in the background doing who knows what for who knows who. even still, it's background processing is 2nd to none, ever try to do something in the background with windows, it's like dealing with the post office (call us back in 4 to 6 weeks)

no linux is the way and people are rediscovering the joy of computing again

amen to that brother

- perry

Last edited by perry; 09-24-2003 at 07:58 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 07:50 AM   #214
Trinity22
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After 1.5 months with linux I'd say no. It doesn't need to be made easier for the general population.......the newbie distros are as easy as windows. What needs to occur is a better toleration of the learning curve that's associated with it. If more people would give it the time it needs instead of taking 3 days to dally with it and then complain and give up then I'm sure more would probably be with linux.

trinity
 
Old 09-24-2003, 08:02 AM   #215
perry
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good point

i agree, the biggest hurdle linux will have is the "average" end user.

microsoft seems to have always capitalized on the "average" user

"power" users on the other hand have had to tolerate microsoft propaganda but then appeared a champion who said enough is enough and then all the "power" users joined the new band wagon and now we have little to complain about (in comparison)

further, there is no real reason to use microsoft other than following their bandwagon. that is, if you like a system riff with spyware or the virus of the day

also, did you know, that as of last week, microsofts windowsupdate.com had to be switched to a linux server....

further, microsoft is considering a new marketing model similiar to that of AOL, that is "charge by the month."

i think that will be a mistake for them

cheers

- perry

Last edited by perry; 09-24-2003 at 08:05 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 08:36 AM   #216
perry
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linuxgamer hugh?

linuxgamer ?

"Mandrake is becoming a nice tweaked out GUI, similar to XP,
but still has a long way to go."

you got that a little backwards

have you tried quake on linux

it rocks

seems to me that linux is not the one 8 to 10 years behind, the industry is

the fact that windows has most of the games right now is trivial

linux rocks because linux is built on a rock

comparing linux to windows is like comparing "apples" to oranges

there is NO comparison

mark my words - Linux Will Rule!

- perry
 
Old 09-24-2003, 08:43 AM   #217
DrOzz
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Registered: May 2003
Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
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i don't know if people are still on the topic of this thread, but i didn't know it existed and i just started reading it (got to page 8 ) ....and one of my favorite quotes is this ::

Quote:
Originally posted by mcleodnine
I will offer this - Saying that "Linux should be more like Windows" is like saying that tea should be more like coffee.
it doesn't get any more true than that i don't know how people cannot see things in simple terms like this ...

oh and i'd like to point out that everything that you said on the first page, tcaptain, was just beautiful
 
Old 09-24-2003, 09:59 AM   #218
MandrakeDave
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: JAX-Area, FL
Distribution: Mandrake LE2005
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Linux isn't neccassarily terribly difficult, but IMHO some of the more basic commands (such as mounting drives for instance) are a bit overwhelming for most Linux newbies, and could be simplier to execute. If someone really wants to make a Linux distro for "switchers", they need to know Windows and make the Linux distro work the same as Windows, with all those little things the Windows users are used to.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 10:02 AM   #219
MandrakeDave
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrOzz
i don't know if people are still on the topic of this thread, but i didn't know it existed and i just started reading it (got to page 8 ) ....and one of my favorite quotes is this ::



it doesn't get any more true than that i don't know how people cannot see things in simple terms like this ...

oh and i'd like to point out that everything that you said on the first page, tcaptain, was just beautiful
I couldn't agree more, but I thought we were talking about people switching to Linux from Windows. What would be nice is for someone to make a special distro just for "Windows switchers". Then that user could later move to a more "technical" distro once he/she learns his/her way around Linux.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 10:15 AM   #220
perry
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true!

true, linux needs a little more attention to detail when installing on account that you have to know a little more about what's inside your computer, but companies like mandrake have smoothed the edges on that a great deal

however, it comes back with many rewards

first and foremost, the components on your system seem much more trouble free

2nd, when there is a problem, there is usually someone who has dealt with it before and has the solution

3rd everything just seems to work like it should for instance printers and networks. have you ever wondered how nice it would be if your operating system automatically detected your network and printers on your network and asked you "oh by the way, so and so has such and such a printer, would you like to make use of it?"

it's really too much to go into but this has been my experience. further, take upgrades and installations. in the beginning it's "what on earth are all these RPMs about?" or "whats with all these version numbers" then you simply "click" and it either installs (usually) or it does not because of some "logical" reason.

unlike my experiance with windows where i guess since everything is fake or like a old house with a fresh coat of paint. it soon wheres off revealing the madness on the inside, like a cheap suit

aaaaaggghhhhhh!

in just a little while windows will be all but a mere memory,

for pete's sake every microsoft itself is switching to linux to run it's windowsupdate.com

beware Microsoft Linux is just around the corner
(who knows, maybe they'll resurrent Xenix)

Microsoft Xenix, hmmmm.....

cheers

- perry

Last edited by perry; 09-24-2003 at 10:18 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 02:29 PM   #221
linuxgamer
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Is anyone here running SuSE?

I think for desktop usabililty those people
making SuSE have got their act together.

Uses KDE 3.1+ which looks the same as what Mandrake is using.
Includes an auto-updater like RedHat
Can easily change the menu system, but it actually works,
unlike Mandrake which appeared to be a little buggy with MenuDrake.
Recognized all hardware.
Beautiful icons and graphics similar to Mandrake.

I am still trying different “flavors” of Linux…
Strawberry would be nice ß------

Debian was 6-7 disks, so I decided to skip that one for now.

SuSE is not nearly easy to install, but may have all of the functionality
that I was looking for.

1. You can download a pre-view .ISO of SuSE which will load everything
into RAM and let you play with it. You do not need to download the preview.

2. Once you are ready to install it, you will need to download a
boot.iso file from their server (20MB)

I choose this mirror since it is the fastest I could find
ftp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/dist.../boot/boot.iso
Get version 8.2 or higher, may need to check that path

3. burn the .iso

4. boot up into the iso and follow these instructions
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...003/08/3/71137

5. The hardest part during the manual install is that you cant download
the whole OS in an .iso form, they make you install it through ftp.
So, I had to install a network card module, sounds harder than it was.
There is a screen to install modules in that manual install area.
All that I knew was my card was Linksys, but there was no linksys card
listed. So, I looked at the installed hardware on my RedHat box and it
was called "tulip" not sure why they call it that.
But it worked and I didnt have to set any paramaters.

6. Now the hard part is over, the rest of the install is all GUI.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 02:34 PM   #222
linuxgamer
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It is the little things that count to. The “tweaking” of the GUI.
SuSU even has a little volume changer and desktop resolution changer
on the taskbar by default.

The auto-updater works excellent, it installed MS true type fonts,
and updated my nvidia driver. I can set it to auto-update or
schedule it daily. And you can select ALL patches and updates
by right clicking and choosing the install ALL option.
Whereas in Mandrake you had to click each one.
Also in Mandrake the updater is manual and buggy.
AND, I don’t need to fill out a stupid survey every
60 days like with RedHad just to update my distribution.
 
Old 09-24-2003, 04:39 PM   #223
FrozenShadow23
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Something's missing, the person who is ok, and wants nothing to change

thats me. I used Windows for... too long. I made the switch to Mandrake 9.1 and had some problems. I started the OS and had more problems. I consider myself a pretty good computer user and I had not many adventures left on Windows and not many challenges that were realistic. Linux is fun because of these challanges. It would be great if there was a linux distro that would fulfill your nich and be as easy as Windows, but for me, I love a good adventure. Now I am adapting quite well to linux and whenever I use Windows, I find myself angry at it's stupidity and lack of customization.

Linux: "bend me break me any way ya need me..."
Windows: "My way or the highway biatch! I ain't changin for nobody!"
 
Old 09-24-2003, 05:48 PM   #224
Scruff
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Quote:
Originally posted by FrozenShadow23
Something's missing, the person who is ok, and wants nothing to change

thats me. I used Windows for... too long. I made the switch to Mandrake 9.1 and had some problems. I started the OS and had more problems. I consider myself a pretty good computer user and I had not many adventures left on Windows and not many challenges that were realistic. Linux is fun because of these challanges. It would be great if there was a linux distro that would fulfill your nich and be as easy as Windows, but for me, I love a good adventure. Now I am adapting quite well to linux and whenever I use Windows, I find myself angry at it's stupidity and lack of customization.
Well said. Thats me as well. I used Mandrake off and on for a year or so before switching to Slackware. Now, I am totally sold and also get aggravated with windows stubborness. I do tech support for windows based pc's and felt like I was at a learning standstill until I switched to linux full time. Now I never want to go back!! I just keep a small partition with XP for the wife or in case I feel like gaming. I am working at learning all I can so I can get a full time job working with a *nix type system. I have 2 years worth of school (I.T.) so far, and they have taught me nothing of *nix. Maybe because of that, the job market won't be as saturated with *nix support ppl as it is windows
 
Old 09-24-2003, 06:59 PM   #225
linuxgamer
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Where do you get that XP is not customizable?

ever been to http://wincustomize.com/

Windows is a standardized GUI.
Whereas everyone and their dog is doing
something different in Linux.

Several major distributions are becoming very similar to
each other. Lindows, Mandrake, SuSE, etc.
Which is a good thing. The Microsoft world learned along
time ago that you need standardization for compatibility
and to move forward.
example: PC DOS, IBM DOS, MS DOS

If you want a puzzle, go do crosswords, an Operating
System is not meant to be a jigsaw puzzle.

Now if you are a programmer and you are referring to
Open Source software, then yes, you do want Linux
for customization in that sense. But if you are not
a programmer, then customization doesn’t compare
to the vastness of XP. And yes
you can customize way more that just the themes
and colors on XP.
 
  


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