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Old 06-07-2007, 09:18 PM   #91
ErV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed-j
Hey, you might find this one interesting too:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...d.php?t=547915
Thanks, but I'll pass. Maybe later. This theme doesn't affect me in any way right now, so i'll hardly have anything good to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frob23
A tool to move the conversation at a comfortable pace and an excuse to stand in front of a building at 2am without looking creepy.
Look, I don't think that someone need a cigarette as an excuse to talk at the time of day he likes. In that situation it looks like a clutch for me. What's wrong about talking in front of building at 2am? And why do you think that you'll be looking creepy without cigarette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frob23
Now, with cigarettes I can see where you are coming from. Mostly because smoking is not naturally appealing. But here, I think you stray into the negatives of alcohol too quickly.
Believe me I have very good reasons for that - alcoholism is a huge problem in the area where I live. It's rather easy to meet a drunk on the streets sometimes, and I really don't like seeing how people turn into something mindless. I know that in small (and I mean - really small) amounts alcohol can be very good for your health (I believe I mentioned this somewhere in this thread). But I've seen people that broke their lives because of drinking too much. If you can control how much you drink, that's good for you. I don't know, maybe I was "brainwashed" by an "anti-drinking" resources, but I've seen enough bad consequences of drinking alcohol, and don't remember any good consequence of drinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frob23
Drinking is a lot like theme parks (sorry, I live in Florida and these form a large part of my world-view).

//following info isn't thoroughly checked. I'm not a doctor, so there can be
//misprints, errors, etc. Anyone interested can find more information yourself
//and check my information for errors as well...

Visiting theme park isn't deadly for your body and won't hurt your children (unless there is an accident or something like that). Drinking a lot can develop into alcoholism, that will harm not only the person that drinks a lot, but also his children. As I know, smoking can lead even to amputation of legs (This what said teacher in our university, at least. Smoking provides a chronical bronchitis (a "smoker's cough"), and harms blood system (well, I'll need another dictionary), that makes smoker feel cold - because veins and arteries doesn't allow blood to flow well. At last stage this cuts off blood flow from the legs (that's what the teacher said, at least) of "smoker". And alcoholism affects children of people, since some of this result will be carried in next generations...

Of course, anyone may chose not to drink/smoke or not to drink/smoke too much. But the consequences of visiting theme park every day aren't the same as the consequences of drinking/smoking every day.

Last edited by ErV; 06-07-2007 at 09:20 PM.
 
Old 06-07-2007, 10:14 PM   #92
frob23
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The "prop" uses of a cigarette in a social context is actually highly developed. Not so much a crutch but rather a tool. One can punctuate a conversation, pause it, or let it drift away all with a few simple motions with a cigarette. I don't expect you to understand because I never would have before I was there.

Quote:
Visiting theme park isn't deadly for your body and won't hurt your children (unless there is an accident or something like that). Drinking a lot can develop into alcoholism, that will harm not only the person that drinks a lot, but also his children.
Here you are again confusing "use" with "abuse." There is a huge degree of difference between the use of alcohol and the abuse of alcohol. I lived with an alcoholic, I know the difference. It's as much a difference as visiting a theme park and chaining yourself to one of the characters at it. Drinking those "very small" amounts [as you call them] is often plenty to feel several of the positive effects of alcohol. A couple drinks is considered fine (even on a daily basis for a man) and that would be more than many people would consider appropriate for themselves. Drinking everyday could be less harmful than visiting a theme-park every day. Actually, with the risk of skin-cancer here in Florida -- and the decreased risk of heard disease with daily drinking -- it might be much less harmful to drink daily than visit a theme-park. And daily theme-park visits would also expose the children to more sun (as, naturally, you would take them) and increase their risk of skin cancer.

Risk assessment is more complicated than simply saying "this is bad/risky." And the "risk" of alcoholism tends to be greatly hyped in America for reasons I won't get into here. But believe me, having seen real alcoholism... the "I'm an alcoholic" types tend to get under my skin. There is a world of difference between having self-control issues and getting the DTs bad enough to need medical supervision. Enough of that rant.

Smoking... there is another issue but one for another day. Smoking, in rare cases, will be cause for amputation. It's not a general thing but specific to certain people. In those people, smoking effects the blood flow to the legs so badly that not quitting will lead to the need to remove the legs due to the flesh dying off. It's a specific issue... and not all that convincing as one against smoking unless you happen to suffer from it.

I have seen people with "broken" lives because of "surfing too much." I don't kid when I say I've seen my share of skin cancer (and I am so at risk because I never use sunscreen since I don't burn... but that is no excuse)... and I have seen a friend unable to walk without a cane because a shark sliced through a tendon in his leg -- not a serious bite... but enough to ruin his gait for life. What we "see" is not evidence for or against anything. I wouldn't claim that surfing is an unhealthy pursuit because of the risks.
 
Old 06-08-2007, 09:34 AM   #93
ErV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frob23
Here you are again confusing "use" with "abuse." There is a huge degree of difference between the use of alcohol and the abuse of alcohol. I lived with an alcoholic, I know the difference.
Look, we live in different areas. In your area "use" of alcohol is common and there are theme parks, while in my "abuse" of alcohol is common and there are no theme parks . I suppose that both points of view (mine and yours) are reasonable, so I don't see a reason to continue arguing about the subject, since it won't probably get discussion anywhere.

Have a nice day.
 
Old 06-08-2007, 02:16 PM   #94
Guttorm
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Hi

I just want to say I think people should use more drugs (not cigarettes). It would help against global warming. People would be too shitfaced to drive.
 
Old 06-08-2007, 03:06 PM   #95
makuyl
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Sadly being shitfaced doesn't quite seem to keep people from driving. Unless you thought of Darwinism, so that shitfaced people drove themself off a cliff and wouldn't pollute any more... Hmm, better stop thinking.

Last edited by makuyl; 06-08-2007 at 03:07 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2007, 03:59 PM   #96
ed-j
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Smile

Wow! One thing I find, is that no matter what you decide you don't want to use any more, people will always be determined to find out what you do still "use."

We are all induced, coerced, persuaded and advertized into addictions at a very early age: Like from day one, at the very least. These addictions are brought about by family (They passed on their addictions) friends or peers (They have been passed on similar from their family) the television (A constant steam of addiction advertising) magazines and newspapers (The same as TV) and every concievable form of social advertisment.

I would be very surprised to find too many (if any) exceptions to this reality.
 
  


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