Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by RedNeck-LQ I don't think so. Linux is constantly improving and growing in popularity. The website called top500.org, lists stats twice a year of the most used operating systems in super computers. The latest stats is here http://top500.org/stats/list/37/osfam As you can see linux has a count of 455 to windows's 6 count. Linux may not win the desktop market, but linux is sure doing well in other areas.

i'd agree with with the original post

Originally Posted by Sumguy I hope that is not the case, because such a mentality will lead to Linux developers catering to Windows users...which will in turn lead to Linux distros becoming more like Windows (which is already happening with some distros- complete with bloat and all)

funny you mention that, i don't see the prob of catering to winvictims whatsoever

matter of fact pup is doing a fair job at it already and not even focused on it, and we're talking very lean to start with

i don't see how catering to 'em takes away at all from being linux BWTHDIK

i suppose the key word would be 'catering' and what that means exactly

one pup mission statement is ~ 'as easy as possible' which it excels at for starting out

that's great news for covering noobs

catering would also mean getting on the net easy and safe, as well as cover the normal usual net surfing stuff they are used to

they don't wanna have issues with basics, as much as possible when they are trying something brand new

i have no idea who covers those areas well out there, and wouldn't consider pup even, though i can't really speak to how it might be these days,

whatever it might be, the forums and whatever else are a mess from the get go for me just to get even basic info,

there is puppyite's FAQ sight, witch i've barely glanced at but mostly heard raves about, who cares if there's no focus and who knows what is going on wherever

as soon as the wincrowd run into a issue in the basics of starting, getting up and running with the usual net experience, that's what should be addressed and would go a long way for whoever does it best

compatibility of being able to go back or forth between OSs easy is also critical, which pup can do with a reboot, not to mention a supremely easy install with a win already installed

what does any of this have to do with linux not being linux?

and what is this linux mentality, or "being about" exactly? ..in the fewest words pls

if any of that could be sorted out then what a supporting forum is about is also crucial, so it must cater to the win crowd

no point in having most of the pieces together then a supporting forum where a message might be ~ get lost, idiot, or figure it out

otherwise, you folks can forget it and dream on

Originally Posted by jonyo funny you mention that, i don't see the prob of catering to winvictims whatsoever matter of fact pup is doing a fair job at it already and not even focused on it, and we're talking very lean to start with i don't see how catering to 'em takes away at all from being linux BWTHDIK i suppose the key word would be 'catering' and what that means exactly one pup mission statement is ~ 'as easy as possible' which it excels at for starting out that's great news for covering noobs catering would also mean getting on the net easy and safe, as well as cover the normal usual net surfing stuff they are used to they don't wanna have issues with basics, as much as possible when they are trying something brand new i have no idea who covers those areas well out there, and wouldn't consider pup even as soon as they run into a issue in the basics of starting, getting up and running with the usual net experience that's what should be addressed and would go a long way for whoever does it best compatibility of being able to go back or forth between OSs easy is also critical, which pup can do with a reboot what does any of this have to do with linux not being linux?

I agree that it's not a bad thing to make distros easy to use and even Windows-like in their user interface- after all, I waited till an easy-to-use distro with a full GUI was developed- but the problem is when they start catering to the people who can't be bothered to learn anything different or who don't even want to have to download packages or configure their system...so they fill their distros with bloat and pretty much make them to where customization and configurability become after-thoughts. IMO, the latest version of Ubuntu is like this- which is why I am planning on switching to Debian instead of keeping up with Ubuntu. There's so much bloat on the latest Ubuntu, it's ridiculous- and I hear that performance compared to early versions is DOWN, not up. This is a prime example of what happens when they try and cater to the Windows crowd.

On the other hand, Puppy, DSL, Lubuntu, et al, are all prime examples of distros that are easy to use, and accommodating for those of us who want to make the switch from Windows, yet are maintaining their "Linuxness", and thus offer the unique advantages of Linux, while helping us to actually learn Linux, as opposed to just trying to substitute for Windows. You might say that Puppy and Ubuntu are at opposite ends of the spectrum- but in my opinion, Puppy is handling things right (at least as from what I can see of it) while Ubuntu is going off the track, and is basically becoming just a distro for people who want a free version of Windows.

The problems and degradation of the latest Ubuntu caused by it being dumbed-down and by having loads of bloat, likely will not win over many Windows users, who likely came to Linux seeking better performance and more versatility and a more problem-free experience. Nor will it win over those who try it just in the hopes that it is a "free Windows", since it is not Windows.

You may've seen this before...but it says it pretty well:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

the title is (Linux is Not Windows)

if that's the point then forget the win crowd and stop wondering what it's about

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma Would you mind give some examples for which kind of problems you wanted to correct on Windows that you couldn't because of Windows? - You want to surf the net and emails half of the times and let the OS does you that, where did Windows didn't let you do that and Linux is letting you? - Which kind of problems correction was a pain? Windows and Linux have different set of problems and takes different correction approach. - Learning new things and playing with configuration? Windows is a different OS too and that demands learning like AD, registries and blah others. Didn't you learn a new thing about that OS? Regards.

Here are a few examples:

Just before I quit using Windows, the bookmark button on my browser would keep disappearing. I found a solution to get it back when this would happen- but I never found a way to keep it from happening. This is par for the course with Windows, because in Windows, you do not have full access to the workings of the OS...and what you do have access to, is usually not easy to access, and the solutions one uses are usually just things learned by rote- i.e. just figuring out ways around Windows roadblocks and using round-about tactics to try and "cheat" the OS into letting you accomplish things that it isn't set up to allow you to do.

Another case in point, from my earliest computer days: I had this commodities trading software which, when I'd go to use one feature of it, would freeze up and fill my screen with lines. The problem could never be resolved. I spent countless hours of the phone with the software's tech support....checked out forums (no one else was having this problem with the software)...tried a fresh install..then even a new disc...added memory- all to no avail- and as my 'puter was new at the time, I'd even call MS tech support and they offered no solutions...but every time I'd call they'd just say "scan for viruses". The problem was nev er resolved.Sheesh! That was 12 years ago, and I still get hot under the collar thinking about it- one good thing that came from it: I learned how to do just about everything you can do to Windows, even though I was brand new to computers/Windows at the time, by trying to fix that problem.

Ohm here's one: One day in Windows, my Outlook Express just stopped working....I worked on it for days to no avail. The only "solution" was to reinstall Windows.

Wow! Rehashing all this really makes me appreciate Linux. I just feel so peaceful and contented when I see my Linux desktop....and I know that I will not be fighting any epic battles with my OS..and that it won't just break one day for no reason, like Windows would do so often.

Then there's the slow-down in performance over time. Even though I don't download much software and don't install a zillion things...always ran a very clean system; didn't run any AV; kept the system well maintained; kept the bare minimum of things running in the system tray, etc. the performance of the OS would just degrade within months...and there was nothing that would restore it, other than a reinstall- and you know what a pain that is!

By comparison, with Linux, any problems I have encountered have been very minor and easily resolved- usuaully just by opening a terminal and typing a command. After a year, it still works as good as the day I installed it (better, actually)and I just don't see the kind of problems and annoyances I used to constantly experience with Windows.

Originally Posted by SigTerm When I'll see linux on computers in shops, internet cafes and in workplaces, then there will be a reason to talk about popularity.

Personally, I don't want linux to be as popular as windows and be a one for all OS. I like the way linux is -- just for the selective audience of computer enthusiast, geeks and people who are just tire of paying expensive window's license fees and products.

Originally Posted by Sumguy By comparison, with Linux, any problems I have encountered have been very minor and easily resolved- usuaully just by opening a terminal and typing a command. After a year, it still works as good as the day I installed it (better, actually)and I just don't see the kind of problems and annoyances I used to constantly experience with Windows.

well i had plenty of problems, of all kinds, including meltdowns that i don't even wanna think about

Originally Posted by jonyo well i had plenty of problems, of all kinds, including meltdowns that i don't even wanna think about

Hmmmm...that is not the norm with Linux. Did these things just happen out of the blue for no reason...or did you mess with things and break it?

Originally Posted by Sumguy Hmmmm...that is not the norm with Linux. Did these things just happen out of the blue for no reason...or did you mess with things and break it?

i prob had a good hand in most of it but i would say individual experiences don't tell the story

you can get away with lots starting out, go all over the place and dive in deep but inevitably it bites

and basically you know pretty much nothing starting out

certainly wasn't a painless smooth running experience for me at all, but i don't regret it and tons of new stuff and great rides

easy enuff then also to just jump right back in

prob gave it all up for a few years and just used a basic pup, couldn't be bothered with any of it

whatever all i went thru, no doubt pup was the easiest and quickest by far for basic stuff that i was after and easy to back up too

basically you can get going in a few minutes and do most of the basics including wifi on the net, no hard drive or much ram/cpu required either

edit - oh, i just love this fresh opening statement over there at Rallying the inmates..

The power that forum users have exercised over a fear of 'power-crazy Users' trying to actually DO something for all our benefits, has resulted in an on-off reaction By John M to the concept of PLUG proposed by WhoDo

blah blah...
....................................YAWN........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

edit - hey aitch ..ummm who is power crazy??? duuuhh lmao .....zzzzzzzzzzzzz

finally, something that was a bit deep there..

the users (all) make you or break you, show me the goods and it better be good

and don't even dream of pulling the wool over the linux crowd

i'm out

cheers

Originally Posted by RedNeck-LQ Personally, I don't want linux to be as popular as windows and be a one for all OS. I like the way linux is -- just for the selective audience of computer enthusiast, geeks and people who are just tire of paying expensive window's license fees and products.

Surely thats the joy of linux, as surely as some distribution will end up as a plastic idiot proof Windows alternative, many others will remain cutting edge, technically challenging development platforms.

There is no one forcing you to accept a one size fits all solution.

Thats why I think Linux will in the long run outlast windows, it can be all things to all men.

I don't like when a linux distribution tries to be like windiws. Linspire, xandros and to some extent opensuse try to be like windows and look at them now.

Don't mind me, I'm just drunk "hick"

linux in africa
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/vie...=549255#549255

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Originally Posted by Frank111 I don't like when a linux distribution tries to be like windiws. Linspire, xandros and to some extent opensuse try to be like windows and look at them now. Don't mind me, I'm just drunk "hick"

And the best thing is, you don't have to like it! You can use a distro you do like. See how that works?

Whereas, if you are an XP user, you can't keep it even if you prefer it. You have to upgrade if you want to remain secure and stable (in as much as Windows ever is) and you have to have the Telly Tubby UI that they've decide that you need. Eh-Oh!

That there underlines, for me, the fundamental superiority of Linux and Open Source.

Originally Posted by baldy3105 ...if you are an XP user, you can't keep it even if you prefer it. You have to upgrade if you want to remain secure and stable (in as much as Windows ever is) and you have to have the Telly Tubby UI that they've decide that you need. Eh-Oh!

C'mon, what did Teletubbies ever do to you? That you would utter the name of perfectly-respectable space creatures, and Microsoft Windows ... in the selfsame sentence ... is deplorable.

After all, all they ever did was to treat you to a clip of a three-year old kid washing dishes ... playing the same clip four times in a row ... in a thirty-minute episode ...

However, in that respect, both Teletubbies and Microsoft Windows are the same: a good joint makes the going much easier.