Naturally, everybody has different taste, and what I didn't like with Debian compared to Slackware is, that you have to configure *everything* yourself. Empty configuration files... At least when I tried it - that's a long time ago, since I'm happy with Slackware now. It may be better now, but I disliked the install program *so* much, it asked for different options for every program you installed. Hey, that's something one should make later himself, not at install time, being unable to access manpages, info, etc. It's confusing for a user. And what I like Slackware for, is simplicity - you really don't have to know much in order to be able to install Slackware. I haven't seen better compromise between features and simplicity in any distro so far.

I also stated quite clearly, that I didn't try Gentoo myself, so I won't judge on how good it's package management is, but I see people around me, who use it trouble-free. And what seems interesting to me, is the "use flags", so you can compile programs with your own options, not just how others thought you like. But, again this is time-consuming and this is the main reason I never tried it myself.

And, please don't get me wrong - my point is, that a package manager with a large repository of programs that you can install, is indeed VERY useful. I miss it with slackware - linuxpackages.net and similar sites on are not official, it happens that packages don't work, and nothing would be wrong if they had more packages at hand... All that I say is, that dependency resolution is the last thing I need with such package manager - if I install 6 programs, or if I install 1 and other 5 get installed automatically, is not a big deal of a difference. Just potential trouble with cyclic dependencies, and similar things. What saves time is the fact that you don't need to run ./configure --some-weird-options &&make &&make install (or, better checkinstall) yourself!

As a conclusion, it seems to me that you really can't have the best of both worlds - control over your system and robustness versus easy and fast program installation.
Slackware currently seems the best compromise for me.

Kernel headers are needed to compile certain third party device drivers like ATi fglrx. Again, you can do as well with the kernel source, but the header-only packages are a lighter download and saves some bandwidth.

See that bothers me. Some of the development decisions in the linux world doesn't please me. I think it would be quite feasible for applications to generate configuration files. When an application gets "unpackaged" or installed...certain files are nescessary in order for it to run. Default configs shouldn't be installed as files in order to run. Sample configs maybe, but not files that could potentially be overwritten. Configurations are a personal preference interface in order for the program to run, not a core component. Maybe this is the philosophy that debian uses.

I have never upgraded from an older distro version to a newer one. Maybe I shouldn't comment on this but I never really liked Operating System upgrades, even for windows. If I get it, I get the full thing. Something must be said for letting a company or a distro to install fresh as if it was "meant to be that way". I just can't get myself to see attempting to preserve information that doesn't no where near take up the amount of importance of what is being upgraded. Clear all sectors and line up every single bit on that drive that was supposed to be for that OS. From a dependency standpoint, either doesn't matter.

KleB, the Debian installer is much improved these days, practically a no-brainer. FWIW I agree with you about the balance in Slackware. It's one reason why so many (myself included) think it's superb.

Originally posted by Kingscriber:
We may be at cross-purposes here. What I'm trying to say is that Debian doesn't overwrite the configuration files that you have generated and doesn't ask you to update them, so that after an upgrade everything is as you left it.

With Gentoo, although it doesn't overwrite those files by default it asks you to update them manually (etc-update). This is where I borked it up. It's very time consuming and not at all straight forward. This is not an anti-Gentoo statement. I still think it's a great distro but you just need so much time on your hands to maintain it. Which is why it's the perfect distro for some Linux hobbyists.

mikieboy:
Possibly.

more clear I suppose as to what you were saying. However I was comming from a standpoint of how those things should operate I suppose. The common cause is enforcing integrity in a efficient updating routine. I think it would be better managed using what I had mentioned while still preserving Gentoo's reputation like you had mentioned.

I'm glad to hear that Debian people had improved their installer. I really didn't know that.

Just my comment on the config files issue: almost every package manager (and *every* good one )is kind enough to leave your config files alone, but nevertheless provide you with default ones. I find Slackware's way of appending .new to the filename a very good idea. But it's all a matter of taste, that's why there are different distros out there.
I wouldn't be very amused, if the program I installed didn't have a default config file, just some samples. Many programs are in this manner nearly optimum configured for average user, so you have to think just of what to change in the config, not figuring out exactly how and what is every line in the config doing. You focus on what you need improving, not absolutely everything. If you give me three example config files and no default one, I'll worry forever what would be the best to do. Give me a default config and I'll see myself what does and doesn't suit me, and change just that. Facilitated decision making... :P

My two pennyworth:

If there was no default config file for a program, wouldn't that program be unworkable for a newcomer to Linux?
Even providing example config files assumes that you know enough to find them and make an informed decision on which to use.

Possibly the best compromise is a default file plus some examples showing how to change it for those who wish to learn how.

Is the provision of a default an issue for anyone who can edit the config files anyway? They get a working program which they can configure as and when.

Can I ask how you proceeded? It happends that my system got upgraded last week and it was actually dead easy and nothing got broken. This was the first time that an upgrade worked so flawlessly, I tried in the past with swaret and boy that was a total joke, that thing made my system completely unusable!!!
So if you look around on the net you'll find some nice howtos....

While I never had a good feeling with upgrades on Windows either, I have found Slackware upgrades from 10.0 to 10.1 to 10.2. to 11.0 rather painless and easier to do than to reconfigure from scratch. It's a manual operation and I have written a small tool to merge config files, but besides reading the upgrade instructions and the list of packages that have been discontinued that's it.

FWIW, I upgrade from Slackware 10.0 to 10.2 and then from 10.2 to 11.0. But I am using a pretty minimum desktop system without too many packages and no KDE even.

I use Slackware as my "browsing" box -- no background processes or servers running and absolutely safe to connect to the internet without a firewall. So I use Slackware as a bare minimum desktop.

On Debian, where I do a bit of development with C/C++, Python, PHP and MySQL and run Apache and other services on localhost so I have a firewall. It's my "productive" system. Debian's package selection is also huge and gives me more applications to work with.

I like binary based distros mainly (as Debian and Slackware are). I used to use Gentoo because it was a different experience, but compiling and updating every single package on the system was a painful procedure which I quickly abandoned. I still have Gentoo though.

I haven't experienced dependency hell in any modern distro - probably Red Hat 8 was the last distro where I experienced the dependency hell and that was a long time ago.

I also think that if you use Slackware and find yourself installing a lot of third party packages/applications and upgrading frequently, then Slackware might not be your distro. Tracking and maintaining more than a few third party packages could quickly become a time-consuming chore eating into your productivity, especially if you have to compile your own packages every time...

Slackware is meant to be a pretty streamlined distribution without a huge selection of software, ideal for a server or a light desktop. After trying a few upgrades with Slackware, I think I'll leave it to major version releases and not upgrade in-between to -Current.

Debian on the other hand is all about the huge selection of applications and of course, keeping current with "apt-get".

Well, I once again ran into troubles with that cpp thing trying to compile a proxy server... I've had to reinstall all the packages I removed from the original install!

The install might well stay as it is now

Originally posted by Chikne:
I wish I could remember exactly what happened now. It was about fifteen months ago. I was following Pat V's upgrade instructions but it all went wrong. I think it may have been the move from a 2.4 to 2.6 kernel. I got a "kernel panic" message on boot and couldn't figure it out. I'm sure a more knowledgable user could have sorted it but I decided to bail out and give Gentoo a try. I'd had 18 months of happily using Slack and was definiteley in my comfort zone. At the time I felt the need to try something new whereas at the moment I just want to use Linux apps and get to know them better.

This really surprises me because I followed PVs instructions to do the upgrade and it really went fine...
Regarding gentoo I tried to install it for weeks and always missed some bits while following the book or whatever it's called. Eventually I made it almost to the end, up to the boot loader installation and it failed. I gave up after that but would like to give it another go!!

Chikne, Gentoo is great for tinkering about but, as Harishankar says, maintaining it is very time consuming and if you want to be "productive" it's probably not the way to go. From my experience I certainly wouldn't recommend that you get rid of Slackware in order to try Gentoo but if you have room for a spare partition then go for it.

FWIW I built Gentoo around Fluxbox; no Gnome or KDE. It was certainly quicker but not so much so that I thought it worth the enormous amount of compiling time required for system updates. And who knows how quick Slack or Debian would be without those big DEs.

And hence the move to Debian a few months ago. I can do a system upgrade in about 15 minutes now instead of overnight with Gentoo! But as I say, the Debian system seems a lot more complicated than Slackware and I'm still trying to get my head round parts of it.