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Old 01-04-2019, 09:46 AM   #121
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
Correct. So, it must be difficult to know how many people are using Vivaldi?
Oh you mean our own stats? As Lysander666 quoted from our privacy policy before:

Quote:
When you install Vivaldi browser (“Vivaldi”), each installation profile is assigned a unique user ID that is stored on your computer. Vivaldi will send a message using HTTPS directly to our servers located in Iceland every 24 hours containing this ID, version, cpu architecture, screen resolution and time since last message. We anonymize the IP address of Vivaldi users by removing the last octet of the IP address from your Vivaldi client then we store the resolved approximate location after using a local geoip lookup. The purpose of this collection is to determine the total number of active users and their geographical distribution.
Only Vivaldi clients would be making such a request and since each post includes a unique user ID, yes we know how many active users we have. Anyone else however, is likely just guessing.
 
Old 01-04-2019, 10:43 AM   #122
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Oh you mean our own stats?.....
Well, no, as I have read the privacy policy.

I was thinking more in terms of how web sites collect data, for whatever purposes, so that Vivaldi (and others) are properly represented and not lumped together as chrome.

It would appear that, e.g., w3schools,

https://www.w3schools.com/browsers/default.asp

lumps the chrome clones together, but not Opera. OTOH, is that the "new" Opera or the "old" Opera and if it is the "new" Opera, how do they know the difference?

BTW, I read somewhere the code for the Presto engine was leaked in 2017. Has anyone grabbed it and ran with it?

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-04-2019 at 10:46 AM.
 
Old 01-04-2019, 10:50 AM   #123
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post

BTW, I read somewhere the code for the Presto engine was leaked in 2017. Has anyone grabbed it and ran with it?
EDIT: not sure if I should have posted that but just in case: yes, it's out there, and not hard to find with a little creative searching [cwizard I know you saw the info].

Last edited by Lysander666; 01-04-2019 at 11:06 AM.
 
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:44 AM   #124
Lysander666
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Worthy of consideration.
 
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:58 AM   #125
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
Well, no, as I have read the privacy policy.

I was thinking more in terms of how web sites collect data, for whatever purposes, so that Vivaldi (and others) are properly represented and not lumped together as chrome.
I am not sure it matters too much if random site X lumps us in with Chrome

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
It would appear that, e.g., w3schools,

https://www.w3schools.com/browsers/default.asp

lumps the chrome clones together, but not Opera. OTOH, is that the "new" Opera or the "old" Opera and if it is the "new" Opera, how do they know the difference?
I have seen people quote w3schools before for market share. I am hoping/assuming you realise that it makes zero sense from a point of view of Global market share. Just in case you or anyone else reading does not I shall explain why. Their list is just a list of browsers that view their site. Yes they have a few million hits but in the grand scheme of things that is basically zero (given the size of the internet). Also their sample is highly skewed to the type of people who would look at their site, i.e. people learning web technologies at beginner to lower intermediate level, from countries where the population has a strong command of English. Nobody else visits them.

Consider that traditionally (in Presto days), Opera's strongest market was Russia. At one point Opera was second only to IE in Russia but basically nobody from Russia would visit a site like w3schools, certainly not normal people with no interest in learning HTML. Or look at Vivaldi these days. Our current strongest market is actually Japan. Again, nobody from Japan is going there. So using their site as a means of trying to guesstimate global market share is pointless. Again I appreciate you might not be suggesting this but I want to put it out there in case anyone else makes that (bad) assumption.

The only types of sites with big enough populations of users from a wide variety of regions, who could probably give you some idea of Global market shares are places like Wikipedia, Facebook, and Google and even these sites and not always popular in all large regions. Others who might have some ideas would be large online advertising networks (again Google being an obvious one) or services that are dedicated to stats and have their stuff installed on a wide variety of popular sites. Once more Google (analytics) or companies like Statcounter. Even these are imperfect as they are not truly ubiquitous (and as I said before we lie to Google) but would still be a hell of a lot better than the likes of w3schools. I really cannot fathom why people mention them but they do. Back in the old days at Opera we occasionally talked about market share and people said we were lying because they had looked at the w3schools stats. Which always left me with a ‘WTF’ thought.

Oh and statcounter while far from perfect do have some of there information publicly if anyone is interested, e.g. http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share

P.S. The fact that there are no (IMHO) great public stats is another of the reasons that browser manufacturers keep their own stats. If you know how many users you as a browser maker have and know the current estimated size or the internet population, you can at least roughly calculate you own market share, which is also useful when talking with potential partners. Now of course your potential partners might not believe you but that is its own issue.

P.P.S. Our stats are primarily for our own usage and we do not currently share them publicly (maybe that will change one day). Just to get that out there before you ask me how many users we have.
 
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:12 AM   #126
ruario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwizardone View Post
BTW, I read somewhere the code for the Presto engine was leaked in 2017. Has anyone grabbed it and ran with it?
That would basically be impossible IMHO. I am not just talking about the legal issues, though that would stop most groups from trying to do something with it publicly but also the technical challenges.

It is a pretty big code base with a lot of very specialist knowledge required. There aren't many people who know their stuff well enough to maintain this. Sure there are plenty of smart devs in the world that could work it out but it would take a lot of them (coordinated) to do it and time to familiarise themselves. Most of the obvious devs who already understand the kinds of technical challenges required to maintain a rendering engine already work on other browser engines or they are the ex-opera engineers themselves. And most of the ex-opera people moved on to other full time jobs (many for competitors), so would have little time to do this, given it used to be their full time job.

Consider the number of people working on (Core) Presto (when it was shut, not peak) was over 100. Also when the code was leaked it had been a few years with web standards and technologies having moved on. So you would need hundreds of skilled engineers to first get to grips with the codebase and then play catchup. So yeah even with the legal issues aside that is not going to happen.

That said I am sure they are plenty of good ideas and tricks that could have been picked up from that code base that might have found their way into other projects, legally or not.
 
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:31 AM   #127
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
That would basically be impossible IMHO. I am not just talking about the legal issues, though that would stop most groups from trying to do something with it publicly but also the technical challenges.
Well, Opera had something to say about it.

Quote:
Opera recently became aware that source code from our legacy browser engine, Presto, has appeared in some online code and file sharing sites. This code is the property of Opera Software and has been published illegally and without our permission. Opera has taken legal steps to have the source code removed from these sites.

The snapshot of Presto engine code that has been published was used in Opera’s browsers up until 2013. This code is not the complete source code for a modern web browser and has not been maintained for several years.
https://blogs.opera.com/security/201...sharing-sites/

It's not that hard to track down more info on it.

Looks like it was incomplete but some people had some fun with it. Some more links of interest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/operabrowse...ble_on_github/
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic...s-been-leaked/

There was something on the Vivaldi forum about it too:

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/1343...code-in-github
 
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:19 AM   #128
kjhambrick
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All --

I am old and forgetful and I often have to look up Saaved Passwords for some sites in my Browser so I can use them 'elsewhere'.

I can't figure out how to view my saved Passwords in the Vivaldi Privacy Settings Screen.

I've googled it ( but not too thoroughly ) and 'they' say Vivaldi was designed to not show Saved Passwords.

Say it ain't so Joe !

Do I have to open Chrome or PaleMoon just to look up a forgotten Password ?

Thanks.

-- kjh( please don't say: don't do that because I am also old and set in my ways )
 
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:28 AM   #129
ruario
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Hover one of the website entries and you will see a little eye icon. Click on that and you can show the password for a website that you have saved.
 
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:26 PM   #130
kjhambrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
Hover one of the website entries and you will see a little eye icon. Click on that and you can show the password for a website that you have saved.
Thanks ruario ...

But I must be doing it wrong ...

All I see is an X Icon which I assume means delete the saved password ...

See the attachment and my Vivaldi Version below.

Thanks again.

-- kjh

Code:
$ ver vivaldi

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 27772 Jan  8 12:39 /var/log/packages/vivaldi-stable-2.2.1388.37-x86_64-1ro
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	vivaldi-stuff.png
Views:	31
Size:	43.9 KB
ID:	29442  
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:19 AM   #131
SavoTU
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Other than a couple of small niggles i have been enjoying Vivaldi as well.

Passwords are one of the niggles, you can access and search them from vivaldi://settings/passwords but i can not find a button in the menu which gets you to this page.

I believe Tools > Settings > Privacy should have a link to this rather than a list of passwords which you cannot view or search.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:41 AM   #132
ruario
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@kjhambrick Hmm… yeah it seems we only added that recently. I of course run internal builds (the public snapshot builds also supports it). Oh well, a little trick then. We have not completely disabled access to the Chromium settings page and I see that this supports display even in the stable, enter the URL “chrome://settings/passwords” (yes use the URL ‘chrome’ in there rather than ‘vivaldi’, while running Vivaldi) and you should get what you need. But rest assured, it will be fixed and available from the normal Vivaldi settings in the future.

Last edited by ruario; 01-11-2019 at 04:42 AM.
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:14 AM   #133
kjhambrick
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Thanks SavoTU and ruario !

SavoTU's link: vivaldi://settings/passwords took me to the default settings page, but the passwords were still hidden.

OTOH...

ruario's link: chrome://settings/passwords took me to the page with the EyeBall Icons -- exactly what I wanted.

I bookmarked it

Thanks again !

-- kjh
 
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:48 AM   #134
ruario
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Thing you might notice is that when you load “chrome://settings/passwords”, the URL presented turns to “vivaldi://settings/passwords” (even though you are within Chromium settings). So SavoTU might have intended to give you the correct link but when copy/pasted it became incorrect.
 
Old 01-12-2019, 08:54 AM   #135
Lysander666
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ruario - could you share a request with your team? Would it be possible to include an option in the settings to change the colour of the window button icon and the one that appears in the native window? I suppose even just a monochrome one would be great, but other colours could be added too. I've currently changed the one that appears in the native window to monochrome, and I switch back and forth between red and monochrome for the window button icon.

Red does rather stand out as a colour which can be a good for finding the browser quickly but it can also be distracting depending on what the rest of one's desktop looks like.

So I have two folders - one for monochrome icons and one for red icons, and I use a command such as

Code:
#cp /home/lysander/Scripts/Vivaldi\ icons/Red/icon_16.png /opt/vivaldi/resources/vivaldi/resources/
or

Code:
#cp /home/lysander/Scripts/Vivaldi\ icons/Monochrome/icon_16.png /opt/vivaldi/resources/vivaldi/resources/
to switch them over at will.

I imagine this option could be enabled by just ticking a box in the settings [or menu]?

Last edited by Lysander666; 01-12-2019 at 08:56 AM.
 
  


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