The Ultimate "When Will The Next Slackware Release Arrive" MegaThread

Bruce Hill · 09-10-2006, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by rkelsen

Quote:

Thanks for clarifying things Bruce.
One thing though:
I didn't encounter any problems when installing with huge26.s. It worked right out of the box for me. My motherboard has an Intel chipset, and both HDs are SATA.

Glad you understood. It seems that a lot of guys don't understand
the difference between installing Slackware with the huge26.s kernel,
and installing the huge26.s kernel after installing Slackware.
I take your statement to mean that you selected the huge26.s kernel
when you installed Slackware, and it detected the Intel SATA controller
and allowed you to partition your drives, and install Slackware.

My chipset and yours are not the same. You have Intel, I have VIA.

danpadams · 09-10-2006, 07:29 PM

Installing with the 2.6 kernel. I think that is what I am wanting to do. Does anyone know if there is an option or a way to do it with the installer itself or specifically what packages do I need to add after I have installed the system and all its goodies with the installer? I would rather have the installer program start me with a 2.6 kernel for now then possibly I will make myself a kernel on my own.

rkelsen · 09-10-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

I take your statement to mean that you selected the huge26.s kernel when you installed Slackware, and it detected the Intel SATA controller and allowed you to partition your drives, and install Slackware.

Yes, that's what I mean.

Bruce Hill · 09-10-2006, 10:37 PM

Dan,

I'm glad you posted back and worded it that way. I forgot to address your question.

I, too, don't care for anything from a 2.4 kernel. They are dinosaurs. And the one in Slackware doesn't work with all my hardware -- lm_sensors doesn't work, either. I like to see my CPU temp and fan speeds on the desktop. That has kept me from burning up the present laptop I had. Not to mention that the 2.4 kernel takes ages to recompile, plus it runs slower than a turtle.

For all who want to tell me about kernel compiling, I've been doing it constantly for over 3 years, and I know how. I have a custom 2.6.17.11 kernel to install on this customer's box, and run 2.6 kernels on all the boxen on my LAN with the exception of my server (which will get 2.6 when I update it to Slackware-11.0). I also install 2.6 kernels on customer's boxen when I install Slackware. Building a 2.6 kernel for Slackware is easy for me. My present kernel on this workstation is only 1.2M.

Yesterday I did an install to a customer's box using the huge26.s kernel. For those who are swimming in the mire, I selected huge26.s as the kernel when I did the initial install.

This box has an IDE drive, so there is no issue about a SATA controller. It still didn't allow me to install via NFS (network install), so I burned the first two CDs and used them.

That box now has a 2.4.33.3 kernel, headers, modules, alsa and all -- from the initial install. So why in the heck does it do this? I selected "huge26.s" and not a 2.4 kernel.

Code:

dave@matthews:~$ ls -l /boot/
total 1990
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      37 2006-09-11 17:02 README.initrd -> /usr/doc/mkinitrd-1.0.1/README.initrd
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      23 2006-09-11 17:02 System.map -> System.map-ide-2.4.33.3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  629105 2006-09-01 14:51 System.map-ide-2.4.33.3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     512 2006-09-11 17:27 boot.0300
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      19 2006-09-11 17:02 config -> config-ide-2.4.33.3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   41810 2006-09-01 14:51 config-ide-2.4.33.3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    5032 2006-08-08 13:34 diag1.img
-rw------- 1 root root   30208 2006-09-11 17:27 map
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      20 2006-09-11 17:02 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-ide-2.4.33.3
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1313255 2006-09-01 14:51 vmlinuz-ide-2.4.33.3

Code:

dave@matthews:~$ ls -l /var/log/packages/kernel-*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  25801 2006-09-11 17:04 /var/log/packages/kernel-headers-2.4.33.3-i386-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    959 2006-09-11 17:02 /var/log/packages/kernel-ide-2.4.33.3-i486-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  62385 2006-09-11 17:02 /var/log/packages/kernel-modules-2.4.33.3-i486-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 869931 2006-09-11 17:05 /var/log/packages/kernel-source-2.4.33.3-noarch-1

So we might as well just hit Enter when it asks you to choose a kernel, because you're only going to get a 2.4 kernel anyway.

Is this a bug, or am I dumber than I think?

So, rkelsen, how did you get a 2.6 kernel after selecting huge26.s at the
boot: prompt when installing?

rkelsen · 09-10-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

So, rkelsen, how did you get a 2.6 kernel after selecting huge26.s at the
boot: prompt when installing?

There's a point in the installation (I think it's after all the packages are installed), where it asks you which kernel you want to install. All I did was select "huge26.s" at this point. That put a copy of System.map.gz, config and vmlinuz (from the /kernels/huge26.s directory on the CD) in the /boot directory, overwriting the symlinks to the 2.4 kernel files which were there.

After that, you have to install the modules package from the /extra directory once the system has re-booted.

Does your installation CD have the /kernels directory on it? If not, that may be part of your problem there. Personally, I make a bootable DVD from the whole tree. Everything's on the one disc that way, and it works the same as the CD installation.

Bruce Hill · 09-11-2006, 12:32 AM

Yeah, I've got egg on my face.

If you select a kernel at the boot: prompt when it asks which kernel you
want to install, it should install the kernel you picked, right?

Why would you have to tell it again, "I really want to install the huge26.s"?
And even when you pick a kernel from the CD, you still boot with no modules, etc. I was naive enough to think I had a full 2.6 install...

rkelsen · 09-11-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

Fwiw (the amount you paid for it) that seems pretty 'er bai wu' -- IMO.
(You'll have to translate the Chinese.)

Awww, c'mon. Not everyone speaks Chinese...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

If you select a kernel at the boot: prompt when it asks which kernel you want to install, it should install the kernel you picked.

No, look more closely. At the start, it asks you which kernel you would like to use for the installation process, not which kernel you wish to install.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

And even when you pick a kernel from the CD, you still boot with no modules; you still don't have a huge26.s kernel installed that will run your system.

Not entirely true. My system is 90% functional using huge26.s without the modules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

That is very non-inutitive IMNSHO.

Intuition and computers don't mix. Same applies to women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

PLEASE EMAIL PAT -- STOP THIS INSANITY ! ! !

Yeah, it'll be nice once 2.4 is out of the picture altogether.

danpadams · 09-11-2006, 01:22 AM

I think this is helping me to figure out how I want to go about installing the stuff, please do correct me if I am wrong or if you have a differing opinion, but no flames of course. Also if you do, let me know what step you are confused on, I want this thread to help anyone who is just lurking and may have similar questions. To get what I am desiring, read in my previous posts, I am thinking I would take the following steps.

1. Boot the installation with the huge26 kernel
2. Install all that I want but not to install any 2.4 modules at the moment (I will do that in a later step)
3. When it asks what kernel do I want to install on my system tell it the huge26 one that I used to boot the installer from.
4. Before I do my own post-setup steps that are separate from the kernel, I would install any of the kernel-* items from /extra that I want, at least the kernel-modules one and the kernel -headers one. Being that I will be installing on a rather large hard drive and I plan on eventually building my own 2.6 kernel, I would also install the kernel-source.
5 Then after the kernel-* items, I would run my own post-setup setup steps (This is to restore my settings from backup, for samba and other services - my preference, and to build a few programs that I want to use.)

I am thinking that with following these steps as I outlined above it would give me a system that is running only 2.6 software and only 2.6 kernel stuff. I am hoping I am clear enough in these steps that if others desire it can help them also.

Bruce Hill · 09-11-2006, 02:50 AM

This is my experience only. Take it with a grain of salt, if you need. None of the Slackware-2.6 kernels have ever worked completely for me on my boxen or any computer builds. I've always needed to recompile anyway. I was just trying to install this one to help test Slackware-current. I'll just leave that to others in the future.

As outlined above, rkelsen, I picked huge26.s at both the boot: prompt and then when it asked which kernel to install. Note that when you do this, the only thing in your system related to 2.6.17.13 is the kernel image, which is /boot/vmlinuz and this output:

Code:

dave@matthews:~$ _ uname -a
Linux matthews 2.6.17.13 #2 Sat Sep 9 01:36:51 CDT 2006 i686 prescott i386 GNU/Linux

In /var/log/packages you have:

Code:

root@matthews:/home/dave/apps# ls -l /var/log/packages/kernel*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  25801 2006-09-11 19:45 /var/log/packages/kernel-headers-2.4.33.3-i386-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    959 2006-09-11 19:43 /var/log/packages/kernel-ide-2.4.33.3-i486-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  62385 2006-09-11 19:43 /var/log/packages/kernel-modules-2.4.33.3-i486-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 869931 2006-09-11 19:46 /var/log/packages/kernel-source-2.4.33.3-noarch-1

and since there are no modules, there is no internet connection. For some this may be 90% functional, but for me it is 100% useless. I don't need a box just to play with itself.

So yes, you must then install at the very least:

Code:

mingdao@paul:/backup2/ftp/pub/Linux/Slackware/slackware-current/extra/linux-2.6.17.13$ ls -lh kernel*.tgz
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1.8M 2006-09-09 14:14 kernel-generic-2.6.17.13-i486-1.tgz
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  14M 2006-09-09 14:33 kernel-modules-2.6.17.13-i486-1.tgz

and if you'd like to rebuild that kernel under /usr/src/linux-2.6.17.13 (not recommended) then you also need:

Code:

-rw-r--r--  1 root root  51M 2006-09-09 14:04 kernel-source-2.6.17.13-noarch-1.tgz

Plus, you will have to build an initrd.img for that kernel if you don't use the ext2 filesystem for / (root) -- which I don't.

So I installed those three packages, and built an initrd for reiserfs, and rebooted. And guess what -- you're right, the kernel didn't work properly on my system. I had no network still:

Code:

root@matthews:/home/dave# ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:11:09:05:9A:F9
          inet addr:192.168.1.91  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::211:9ff:fe05:9af9/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
          Interrupt:6 Base address:0xcc00

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)

root@matthews:/home/dave# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
127.0.0.0       0.0.0.0         255.0.0.0       U     0      0        0 lo
0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    1      0        0 eth0

I have no idea what those lines in bold are, but they kept me from accessing my LAN, and the internet.

So, I installed my own 2.6.17.11 kernel on the box, and It Just Works (TM).

The Slackware-2.6.17.13 didn't have SMP either, so hyperthreading on the Intel mobo wouldn't work.

danpadams, since I'm not the brightest Slacker on the planet, you might not care. But my advice is:

Compile your own kernel. If you've never done this before I would suggest you use Kwan Lowe's Kernel Rebuild Guide to start. And also, take Linus Torvald's advice from the README.txt file included in the kernel source:

Code:

dave@matthews:~/kernel/linux-2.6.17.11$ less README
INSTALLING the kernel:

 - If you install the full sources, put the kernel tarball in a
   directory where you have permissions (eg. your home directory) and
   unpack it:

                gzip -cd linux-2.6.XX.tar.gz | tar xvf -

   or
                bzip2 -dc linux-2.6.XX.tar.bz2 | tar xvf -


   Replace "XX" with the version number of the latest kernel.

   Do NOT use the /usr/src/linux area! This area has a (usually
   incomplete) set of kernel headers that are used by the library header
   files.  They should match the library, and not get messed up by
   whatever the kernel-du-jour happens to be.

and then when you get ready to rebuild a 2.6 kernel, I have a Fast and easy kernel rebuild guide for 2.6.x.y kernel in Slackware.

This is very unpopular with most guys, and I'll probably get flamed. But heck, those instructions were written by Linus Torvalds, and after all, it's his kernel.

rkelsen · 09-11-2006, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

This is very unpopular with most guys, and I'll probably get flamed.

Why? AFAIK building a custom kernel has always been encouraged by Pat and the Slackware community. The number of hours I've spent running a stock kernel can be counted on one hand. And that's in over 7 years of using Slackware!

Originally, it was because Pat's kernels didn't offer features that I needed (eg: APM or highmem support), but after a while I started building "chopper" kernels. Back in the 2.2 days, my kernels were ~400Kb on average. Then with 2.4, it was usually 650 to 700Kb. Nowadays, with a 2.6 kernel, it sits around 1.2 to 1.3Mb. Interestingly, Pat's 2.6 builds don't include HyperThreading support, which alone is grounds enough for a custom build. They also include a lot of stuff which I don't need.

I think your fears of being flamed are misplaced. It's the *BSD guys who dislike building kernels.

dive · 09-11-2006, 05:01 AM

Precisely the point I was trying to make above.

samac · 09-11-2006, 05:27 AM

An observation only.

I have never had any problem with the slackware 2.6 kernel, but that could be because I selected slightly older, well supported, hardware when I built my box.

If you use any operating system with newer hardware you will have to download and install drivers to get full funtionality.

This problem is doubled when hardware manufacturers do not support the operating system that you choose to use.

So yes there is some slight, post install, configuration, but there is also the freedom of choice to install and configure as you wish.

I choose to use older hardware and run slackware, my brother in law runs a "dogs bol**cks" machine and Windows XP. Guess who has fewer problems?

My point is not everything is perfect, so choose what suits you, be it a 2.4 kernel, 2.6 kernel or something else, and if the install doesn't suit you at least you have the freedom to change it.

Samac

Alien Bob · 09-11-2006, 06:39 AM

Bruce,

You're cutting a few corners here in your observations about how you think things are supposed to work when Slackware installs on your box.

I told you this in private already, but I will repeat it here for the sake of people who read your "insanity" post.

Slackware still is based on a 2.4 kernel. The "huge26" kernel you can choose at boot of the Slackware installer is meant for those people who can not get their hardware (disk storage subsystem notably) to work correctly with any of the 2.4 kernels. Therefore, no network modules are made available for the installer (yet) if you boot that huge26 kernel when installing Slackware.
The documentation states all of this quite clearly (Slackware-HOWTO).
The very first boot screen (where you press "F3" to see the list of kernels to choose from) also states very clearly (as does Slackware-HOWTO) that you need to install the separate "modules" package afterwards if you should decide to install the huge26 kernel as your default Slackware kernel.

I replayed the installation of Slackware-current just now, and if I boot with the huge26 kernel, in the end I get to the "SELECT A KERNEL" screen (this is after all the packages have been installed) and the setup program picked the right default for me: I can press "ENTER" twice to get to "cdrom" --> "/cdrom/kernels/huge26/bzImage". This is what Slackware does: it shows you the logical (obvious) choice to make, but it allows you to make up your own mind about which kernel you want to install. This as well is stated in the Slackware-HOWTO. Read section "4.6 The CONFIGURE option"
There is also the menu item "install the default kernel" but the message there is that the "default kernel" means to use the kernel package from the "a" series. And that is still the "sata.i" kernel, but properly packaged into a Slackware package.

So, if you (after installation and reboot) run "ls -l /var/log/package/kernel-*" clearly you will not see any mention of the "huge26" kernel if you chose to install that because that kernel is not packaged as a Slackware package. The setup program simply takes the kernel "/cdrom/kernels/huge26/bzImage" and copies it as the file "/boot/vmlinuz" so that it does not have to change the file "/etc/lilo.conf" (which uses the kernel name "/boot/vmlinuz" too).

There is absolutely no insanity to all this. There is a lot of suggesting, but no hand-holding. This is just like the package selecting stage where you can equally thoroughly mess up your computer by deciding not to follow the suggested defaults... Slackware lets you have control.

About the fact that the network does not work for you Bruce, I could not reproduce this. After booting into my fresh Slackware-current and installing the kernel-modules-2.6.17.13 package, and rebooting again (yes... lazy and playing safe), I had a working network - IP address obtained via DHCP, and I could surf the Internet.

I do fully believe that the huge26 kernel is not perfect with regard to it's configuration (look at the recent ChangeLog entry where you can see that Bruce's report of broken USB keyboard support led Pat to fix that for the huge26 kernel) but I would not go as far as to discard Slackware for problems with the huge26 kernel... it's still an optional method of installing Slackware.

"We" as a community should definitely test the 2.6 kernel and iron out all the bugs once a new development cycle starts (after Slackware 11.0 is out) and Pat puts in a 2.6 kernel as the default - but I would expect there will be a multitude of tailored 2.6 kernels instead of one huge26 kernel, just like is the case now with the 2.4 kernels you can choose from.

But PLEASE read the documentation that is in the Slackware root directory (RELEASE_NOTES, BOOTING.TXT FAQ.TXT and Slackware_HOWTO).

Eric

Bruce Hill · 09-11-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by rkelsen

Quote:

I think your fears of being flamed are misplaced.

Obviously I need to quit studying Chinese and study English. :-(

Do NOT use the /usr/src/linux area! Build your kernel under /home
is the part I meant.

Old_Fogie · 09-11-2006, 01:36 PM

FWIW I've been using the huge26 config on my slackware 10.2 and I'm loving it.

I think a nice 'enhancement' for slackware some day down the road, would be for the slackware installer to give an option to install stuff from the extra cd after you install the default series stuff. Maybe something like pkgtools' remove tool, where you can run down the list of those packages located on the extra cd, and hit 'space bar' for the packages you want there and then they get installed, then you run run the lilosetup and reboot.

For me when I first came to slackware, after installing and a few days/weeks went by I totally forgot about the extra and made my own K3b when it was already done for me LOL. But you get my point a new comer to slackware may not realize there's an extra at all in the first place. Especially when many recommend all you need is cd1 and 2 to install. Having the 'install from extra' part of the installer raises a flag to the user, and might just save some future headache's and address using those custom kernels. I'd like to see the readme too come up but that's another minor detail.

Oh, btw, is bit-torrent the best way to get slackware 11 when it comes out, can the mirror's keep up?