My (small) company deploys (non-PAMified) servers and desktops for small-to-medium scale businesses. My approach is pragmatic: I'm choosing my Linux distribution like my mechanic chooses his tools. Before Slackware, I've been a regular user of CentOS, starting with 4.x (I've even published a fat book about it).

I just took a peek at the CentOS bugtracker: https://bugs.centos.org/view_all_bug_page.php. If you search for "systemd" on CentOS 7.0, you get 39 currently unresolved bugs, some with a "major" status, some even with a "crash" status. As far as I can see it, this has to be the lowest quality CentOS release ever.

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Nothing. It simply brings the functionality that all these existing tools should have brought long ago.

BTW it takes ten thousand lines of C code to give the opportunity to some sysadmin to write his one line of shell script.

Cheers

no it doesn't

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I rely on Slackware (and now starting with FreeBSD) for all my non-trivial personal computing, all my business computing, all my own customer's machines that I support plus all family and friends who wish to remain on speaking terms.

But why is your own "basement" machine not on an equal footing with the basement machines of others? My point would be that EVERYONE's computing uses are of equal importance. Systemd disrespects that by breaking compatibility and uses in numerous different ways - all of which have some "cost" without offsetting benefit, to those so affected. That is a major cause of opposition to it, always ignored...

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Sorry if I am wrong but I think it was you who told everybody here that Slackware needs PAM for the next release and you are going to abandon it and use Ubuntu server because of the lack of central authentication in Slackware. So where you use Slackware and where Ubuntu

About the bug tracker. As I already said Slackware is a follower distribution. It adopts new things when it has no choice and when those things have been already tested and fixed by the entire Linux community. So I don't expect to see systemd in Slackware tomorrow. May be one day when the last version of KDE that doesn't depend on systemd is hopelessly outdated. Until then happy slacking

Cheers

Slackware doesn't need to lead or follow, it has to get it right. It's never been about leading or following in GNU/Linux when you do things the right way and use stability as a foundation.

To be honest your arguments are only reflective of someone who doesn't appreciate Slackware and what it provides in terms of useability, education, and benefit.

You want bleeding edge groundbreaking, but you don't want to see the consequences of that. New doesn't always mean better. The new does not have foundation, experience, and stability if it's constantly evolving. Each evolution is still the new.

Leaders in GNU/Linux never even aim to lead. They do things right to set not just a good example, but a better example. In that, Slackware is a leader in many ways in GNU/Linux. It also follows but knows when to avoid trend and fadware that only serve temporary means. Slackware aims for the long term, not the short and immediate term. Slackware is also one of the only distributions that aims to be a be a distribution that not only is usable in any situation you customize it to be, but also a teaching tool on how to do things the right way, the UNIX way, which are reflective in the Slackware way.

Fadware authors trying to set trends are not leaders, nor are those who push fads and trends. They are wanna-bes trying to be what they never can be. Software heroes trying to save GNU/Linux from itself when nothing is wrong except their own perception.

And ten thousand lines of C can never duplicate the functionality of one line of Shell Script. If you can not control your actions of execution, then the execution of those ten thousand lines is meaningless.

Patrick has taught us to look at the deeper aspects and meanings of packages and how they coalesce into a useable medium and stable operating system and environment and to look elsewhere for examples of what either doesn't work well at all, or only half-asses the job trying to do too much.

We all have used distribution X outside of Slackware to see what else is offered only to come back because what we found was not what we thought it was.

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@ReaperX7

I find it odd that my appreciation for Slackware is being judged by someone who doesn't even use it.

And I don't know who is "Grand Master Foo" but usually it takes a lot of C code to write a kernel and an os around it and the shell that will execute your one line script.

if you rephrase that sentence to be less of an indirect insult i will look at some commands code path and give you an estimate

bdw, you forgot the lines of C in Verilog, Altium and other tools used to make the hardware that runs that kernel
smarty

This thread was supposed to share my weekend experiment with systemd and eventually to bring some meaningful discussion about it. Unfortunately it brought a meaningless arguing.

I am out.

Cheers

What do you mean by this ??? If you're talking about "parsing"... Well of course it might GENERATES thousands of lines of C... but from dozens of lex/yacc lines...

Maybe I missed what you meant.

Cheers

Garry.

Oh that was what you meant... Ok yeah climbing abstraction layers hide a lot of underground work... Ok I agree, although I still don't understand what is the point you wanted to express here.

Also, thank you for sharing your test, I agree it's not 'fair' that it turns out to be a flame war against you.

Those systemd threads are more dangerous than mine fields...

Cheers.

Garry.

I use Slackware as a build platform for a build of LFS based in Slackware. Just because I don't list it directly, doesn't mean squat. LFS may have a lot of cutting edge packages in releases at times, but the same care Patrick puts into Slackware is used by Bruce and crew to construct what we use to make LFS.

Just because I use LFS directly doesn't mean I don't bring along what I learned from Slackware and continue to learn.

You said you tried systemd in Slackware, so how did you get all the rest of the packages that have to be rebuilt around systemd built as well? Bartgymnast already proved that dozens of packages need to be rebuilt for systemd as it is, so unless those packages were rebuilt, the system would be somewhat unusable.

To be honest, this feels like propaganda from someone who doesn't respect Slackware for what it already offers in contrast to what trendy fadware wishes to promote, and yes, I too, as others here probably have also, have tried systemd as well, and we know full well about it and have made decisions on it and how we feel about it.

You're out then? Your choice, but you made claims that you opened to scrutiny, debate, and challenge, and were done so by members here. You baited a known topic that is known to be touchy as it deals with fadware and trendware that has no foundations, so you should have known the outcome, or expected it.

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since i like promoting it;
ragel is a language to describe FSA (primarily) using standard regex
the program that comes with it can spit out a jump table based state machine in C
(it can also make a goto based one that is a lot of lines)

I used ANTLR a few years ago... It's good too, although the C/C++ support was a bit "behind" at the time (and, incidentally, the C maintainer had a HUGE ego, spitting on users, another one... ).

It had (still have?) a very expressive way to describe grammars, and allowed island grammars...

Anyway, sorry for digressing from the original subject.

Cheers

Garry.

All he did was actually try out systemd on a minimal Slackware install and summarize his experience...how is his experience somehow less meaningful than yours?
When did this forum turn into a religious crusade? If you share an opinion that differs from that of others you will be berated until you are silenced? How was trying out systemd baiting? Your claims of its being fadware/trendware are premature, and your claim that it has no foundations is utterly groundless. And to say that someone should have *expected* such an outcome from simply trying a piece of software and sharing their experience shows how far this forum has fallen in the last few years. As long as discussions about systemd continue like this, Poettering is absolutely right to dismiss the opinions of Slackers. Why bother wading through all the noise?

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