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Old 01-14-2020, 04:19 AM   #1
unInstance
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Remove PulseAudio


My setup:
  • SlackWare current (5.4.11)
  • alsa-lib-1.2.1.2-x86_64-2
  • alsa-oss-1.1.8-x86_64-1
  • alsa-plugins-1.2.1-x86_64-1
  • alsa-utils-1.2.1-x86_64-1

mocp --version
Code:
          This is : Music On Console
          Version : 2.5.2
         Revision : Unversioned directory
            Built : Jul 17 2019 18:48:39
    Compiled with : OSS ALSA DEBUG Network streams resample
       Running on : Linux 5.4.11 x86_64
           Author : Damian Pietras
         Homepage : http://moc.daper.net/
           E-Mail : mocmaint@daper.net
        Copyright : (C) 2003-2016 Damian Pietras and others
          License : GNU General Public License, version 2 or later
Problem: I followed this guide to get rid of PulseAusio completely.
But when I try to launch mocp, this happens...
Code:
Running the server...
Trying ALSA...
ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1089:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
Trying OSS...

FATAL_ERROR: No valid sound driver!


FATAL_ERROR: Server exited!
Solution can be found here

Last edited by unInstance; 01-16-2020 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Add solution
 
Old 01-14-2020, 04:35 AM   #2
Richard Cranium
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Slackware -current has a set of packages in /extra/pure-alsa-system that are pure alsa. Install them and try again.

If mocp still fails, submit a bug report.
 
Old 01-14-2020, 04:54 AM   #3
unInstance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Slackware -current has a set of packages in /extra/pure-alsa-system that are pure alsa. Install them and try again.

If mocp still fails, submit a bug report.
https://mirrors.slackware.com/slackw...-system/README
Does not work.

Last edited by unInstance; 01-14-2020 at 05:36 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2020, 07:19 AM   #4
unInstance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unInstance View Post
I suppose it does not work because I have to rebuild packages.
For those who hate PulseAudio: The best way to get rid of PulseAudio is to get rid of them during system install.

I try to install apulse. I uninstall pulseaudio first and then install apulse. mocp starts successfully but it does not show volume level and crashes as I try to start playing a song saying that it cannot get information from server. How to fix this?
Code:
FATAL_ERROR: Can't receive value from the server!
Solution can be found here

Last edited by unInstance; 01-16-2020 at 02:56 PM.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:54 AM   #5
Didier Spaier
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mocp works here with or without PulseAudio installed, as the moc package has no dependency on PulseAudio at all.

I won't waste my time trying to help you finding what's wrong in your system, as your issue is a non issue. And doubly so IMNSHO as there is no reason to hate PulseAudio, but not wanting to learn.

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 01-14-2020 at 07:59 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2020, 08:11 AM   #6
unInstance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
mocp works here with or without PulseAudio installed, as the moc package has no dependency on PulseAudio at all.

I won't waste my time trying to help you finding what's wrong in your system, as your issue is a non issue. And doubly so IMNSHO as there is no reason to hate PulseAudio, but not wanting to learn.
Thanks for your will to help, I am to mark this thread as solved as I have solved the issue (post #4). I would use a systemd(ick) linux distribution if I did not have a will to learn new. I hate PulseAudio because it is bloated crap.

Last edited by unInstance; 01-14-2020 at 08:12 AM.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:15 AM   #7
Didier Spaier
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Would you mind elaborating what makes you think that PulseAudio is a bloated crap?
 
Old 01-14-2020, 08:30 AM   #8
unInstance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Would you mind elaborating what makes you think that PulseAudio is a bloated crap?
Power consumption, noise in headphones, multiple things that have to be separate plugins come within a single binary, software preamplifier.

Last edited by unInstance; 01-14-2020 at 09:21 AM.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:35 AM   #9
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unInstance View Post
Power consumption, noise in headphones, multiple things that has to be separate plugins come within a single binary, software preamplifier.
Our experiences differ then as I don't suffer of anything you mentioned.
 
Old 01-14-2020, 09:17 AM   #10
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Our experiences differ then as I don't suffer of anything you mentioned.
That is exactly the problem with pulseaudio, it works for some and for others its just a broken mess. Its highly temperamental and inconsistent software.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:22 AM   #11
unInstance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Our experiences differ then as I don't suffer of anything you mentioned.
I named not just "works on my machine" things. This is still bloat.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:19 AM   #12
enorbet
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orebea and uninstance, I despise pulseaudio but it has nothing to do with mere bloat, real or imagined. My hatred of Pulse is it hooks into so many things it's not particularly modular where it would function as an option but instead actually behaves like a requirement. One important concept is that there is not even an objective definition of "bloat" exactly because it is entirely subjective. "Whatever I don't find useful" is the working definition of "bloat" and IMHO as long as those "useless extras" don't use up resources why should anyone care if they are just there?

Didier I fail to understand how, knowing you have been in a number of threads regarding Pulseaudio where you must have read what some people, particularly audiophiles or just those to whom sound isn't a mere accessory, have written about Pulse's problems not the least of which is latency almost a full order of magnitude worse than pure ALSA, you can dismiss people's concerns as merely unwillingness to learn the new. It's great that it works for you but it is myopic and wrong to dismiss other's concerns who have different use cases from yours as being essentially delusional.

Last edited by enorbet; 01-14-2020 at 11:10 AM.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:48 AM   #13
garpu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
Would you mind elaborating what makes you think that PulseAudio is a bloated crap?
For day-to-day stuff, I don't bother removing pulse. But if I'm doing any kind of music, I suspend it. The latency with it is still that awful. (That having been said, I was pleasantly surprised at how not-crap pulse is these days, when I had to switch to it for the Extra Life marathon stream.)


Back to the original problem...

If you're using alsa, and you have more than one sound card (which everyone does--most video cards have an audio device, there's usually an on-board mobo device, and if you're using a discrete one, that's a third audio device), you'll need to have an .asoundrc. (https://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Asoundrc)

Once you specify which audio device things using ALSA should be using, it should work. Changes to an .asoundrc are immediate.
 
Old 01-14-2020, 12:28 PM   #14
Didier Spaier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Didier I fail to understand how, knowing you have been in a number of threads regarding Pulseaudio where you must have read what some people, particularly audiophiles or just those to whom sound isn't a mere accessory, have written about Pulse's problems not the least of which is latency almost a full order of magnitude worse than pure ALSA, you can dismiss people's concerns as merely unwillingness to learn the new. It's great that it works for you but it is myopic and wrong to dismiss other's concerns who have different use cases from yours as being essentially delusional.
I fully agree that PulseAudio is not suitable for all uses cases. That some or even many people do not like it, or do not want to use it for any reason or purpose is fine with me. What I do not agree with is:
  1. That someone calls it "bloated crap" just because this person does not like it for whatever reason (by the way I have also read something similar about grub, to which I disagree as well),
  2. That it should be removed from the system to allow using other software instead.
I think that we agree on the first point, let me elaborate a bit on the second one. I will do this from a systems' integrator stand point (as you know, this is my hobby).

I easily admit that PulseAudio may not be the best software for audiophiles, because of excessive latency (although this can be mitigated using rtkit, cf.: http://git.0pointer.net/rtkit.git/) or for any other reason, and that other software like Alsa or Jack be preferred for listening to music or other features like audio or video editing. But I still don't understand why using other software for such purposes would need not to have PulseAudio installed.

A few basic things allow not have PulseAudio get in the way, like no redirecting ALSA's audio output to it, start it only on demand (by applications that require it, not when starting a user session, let alone system wide).

If the PulseAudio server is running you can easily suspend it using the pasuspender utility shipped in the pulseaudio package. And there are other ways to make PulseAudio and Jack coexist (and even cooperate), cf for instance: https://jackaudio.org/faq/pulseaudio_and_jack.html, Jack Backend under https://gavv.github.io/articles/puls...device-drivers and https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...o_through_JACK

tl;dr: I still didn't find a convincing answer to this question: why an audiophile (or anyone else, for any use case) would need to have PulseAudio not installed?

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 01-14-2020 at 03:39 PM.
 
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:32 PM   #15
Anonymo
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Is anyone using Sndio?

http://www.sndio.org/
 
  


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