I'm not "bashing" Slackware or its developers, but I'm not happy with the folks over at KDE.

The question remains, why would anyone replace something that works with something that does NOT work as well as what it is replacing?

IMHO, KDE 4.x should remain in the background as a development project until the time comes that it works was well as 3.5.x. Then, and only then, should it be released as "stable" and a suiteable replacement for 3.5.x. Until then it is just a pretty girl with a rotten personality.

The primary reason for upgrading is because I would like to have the latest version of GNAT GPL (libre.adacore.com). It wont run on Slackware 12.1, which is what I'm using on my primary desktop computer at the moment.

Had it not been for that specific piece of software, I would probably not have considered upgrading yet.

I wont load "window maker" because I'm quite happy with KDE3.5 and I had hoped KDE4 would've proved to just as solid.

And no, going from Slackware 10.2 to 12.1 (and 12.2 on some computers) has been completely painless. I've not experienced more technical issues/bugs with each new release - quite the opposite actually.

Except with 13.0 - or rather with KDE4.

I too will keep using 12.1 and 12.2, and patiently wait for 13.1 and what will hopefully be a more mature and stable KDE4 experience.

And in my case, I don't need more than one day of freezes and crashes to tell me that KDE4 is less stable than KDE3.5

And please note: I'm not complaining about HOW things are done in KDE4. I'm greatly impressed by the design and the feel of KDE4, and I truly look forward to being able to use it in my daily work in the, hopefully, "near" future.

/Thomas

Even if one thinks that something is stable, there are usually always problems found and improvements to be made. I don't think that anything is ever "stable". Use and abuse will improve KDE4x.

[Humor attempt coming]
I mean, where would Windows be if it waited until it was stable?

So far so good, well most of it anyway...

Only two 'less fun bugs' I've noticed.
1. slackpkg mirror file has some URL's not being correct (posted that in its own thread).
2. KTorrent is not latest version + https URL's don't work
(KTorrent, well, https in tracker URL's is working if KIO is disabled. But then
trackers with http URL's don't. And the other way around).

So there's (atm) two packages I'd like to see an upgrade for soon...

Else from the above:
Have to adjust to the new KDE (navigate and tweak it).

/M

No, not yet. Maybe I'll do so, sooner or later.

Not what I observe, definitely. Konqueror and KMail and Kate and some others, I use daily, are, at least, as configurable and much more stable than in 3.5.x. Konqueror properly renders a lot of pages, it wasn't able to display in previous versions (though there are still a couple of pages where it fails). And: In many cases I don't have to configure anything, as the defaults now are exactly what I set manually in KDE 3.5.x. This way KDE 4 simply saves me time.

Oh, my goodness! LOL!!!

Well, I doubt, that MS would describe something it wants to sell as "immature". And no, I am not getting paid by an open-source desktop environment development project, and I am not working for the "evil empire", either.

I understand your point, and I think it might have been a good idea to include both KDE 3.5 and 4 with Slackware 13, but it would only really have made sense, if KDE 3.5 would be maintained, at least for a while. I think you are a bit too pessimistic here, but, as I said, I get your point.

gargamel

Did you try to use the burned CDs? I see k3b hang at 99%, too, here, but after cancelling the burn process I can use the CDs without a problem, nevertheless.

gargamel

Good way to put it!

gargamel

Actually, it was the dvd. I just tossed it without trying. Maybe I should have tried, but I was afraid something would be missing.

That was not my experience. KMail and Koepete were both so unstable I stopped using them in KDE 4.xx. Konqueror I've rarely used for more than file a manager, so I can't make a fair comparison. However, i much prefer Konqueror over Dolphin as the file manager.
Gwenview, now part of the graphics package in KDE 4.x, wasn't as useful as the KDE 3.5 version.
Okular wasn't bad, but I still prefer Adobe's pdf reader.
The games are "prettier" in 4.x, but I rarely use them.
K3b and Kaffeine are both not ready for 'prime time" in 4.xx
KOffice as always been a joke, IMHO, and the space on the installation CD/DVD could be better used for something else.
KDE 4.xx brings nothing to the party that I, as an "end user," see as worthwhile, other than a pretty face, and should not be the default, IMHO, but just an optional desktop along with KDE 3.5x, XFce, Fluxbox, etc., etc.

Just downloaded and installed it. I just overwrote my root partition from 12.2, will mount and rename my old home folder then create my user account so all the KDE config is fresh. Took maybe an hour, I just selected my root, formatted and selected everything then went outside with the kids for around an hour and came back in and checked and it was done, install lilo and reboot. Log in as root, wlan0 iwconfig essid="myssid", dhcpcd wlan0, startx and I'm here, took about as long to do as to type it,fast easy install and setup, recognized wireless and video no problem. Easier to install than Windows for sure. Looks like it still has the dpi issue, fonts are big.
My eeePC is a 900HA with a 500G drive I swapped in replacing the 160G.

So the other minor issues is the Akonadi server for Korganizer complains about not being configured right, thats not really an eeePC issue though.
Starting KDE took a few seconds but IIRC is does the very first time due to setting up all the config files and such, next time should be faster. I find the new KDE start menu to be somewhat annoying, have to wait for it to slide over to the next menu and I can't find the run command dialog, will take some getting used to. Seems faster so far, firefox scrolling smoother for example. The animations in KDE are smoother and faster.

One of the main draws of Slackware for me has been its "Keep it simple" approach to things. KDE 4 on the other hand is going in completely the opposite direction. All that Akonadi stuff being a prime example. I'm finding it hard to reconcile the two approaches into a coherent product. The people who appreciate slackware for what it is are likely to be turned off by the complexities of KDE4.

If Slackware is still going to appeal to this set of people then I think there's going to need to be some changes to the way it's distributed. Someone who just wants a simple XFCE based system isn't going to want to have to download a 4GB DVD image containing all that KDE bloat to get it.

Moving some of the KDE dependencies out of the L set and putting them in with KDE itself would be a start, but it's my belief that making the KDE4 an optional download/addon module for slackware would be a better way to go.

I also support this great quote. It is a dilemma with no ideal solution.

krunner (ALT+F2) is actually one of the best features in KDE4 and almost removes the need for a menu at all (for experienced users).
I absolutely hate the new KDE4 menu but you can either change it to the "Classic" style or try something like "Lancelot" or use krunner (as above)

As for stability, the main reason I never really liked KDE at all was due to it being very unstable and bloated. Thus far 4.2.x actually runs faster and is more stable than any other 3.x version I've tried. I've been running it as my default desktop on my 1.8Ghz/1Gb Ram notebook for many months during the time we have been testing and have been very impressed with it.

I still prefer Konqueror over Dolphin and I also find that kpdf is actually better than either okular or Acrobat reader, the important thing is that there are still choices.

We knew there were still a few issues with k3b and these are mentioned in the Release notes as are some work-arounds.

KDE3 is all but EOL'd and I think that Slackware moving to KDE4 was the correct thing to do at this time. We would have liked to include 4.3.0 but we were too close to a release and it would have been wrong to let it go pretty much un-tested.

It's good to hear intelligent feedback about what is good and bad with KDE4 (and the release as a whole) but the whiney "It's just broken/alpha/rubbish/different'/not kde3'" rants will likely be ignored by all but those participating in them.

I upgraded to slack 13.0 from slack 12.2 and everything is running smoothly. The only issue I noticed after the upgrade is an error message related to "alsactl restore", which I solved by running "alsactl store" once I log in my session.
I found myself enjoying KDE 4 once I turned off all the effects. Not that I don't like the effects, which are by the way really good, but simply because I don't need them. I have to admit that as a former KDE 3.5 user, it took me a few hours of reading to understand all the new concepts in KDE 4, especially plasma. From my viewpoint, KDE 4 is a clear improvement. The only thing I'm really missing from KDE 3.5 is the transparency settings in Konsole. They don't seem to work when plasma is activated.
Also, I wasn't able to run Kile after the upgrade for compatibility reason with KDE 4. As there is no current sbo build for the KDE 4 version of Kile, I had to compile the 2.1beta2 from source and it worked fine (by the way, okular is amazing). I had similar issues with other packages but they were easily solved thanks to slackbuild.org and sbopkg.
So far, the only thing I couldn't figure out is how to get auctex in texmacs and Krisk to run. The former just doesn't want to get installed and the later simply crashes all the time.

I didn't know the ALT-F2, would be nice if it were on the menu someplace.
The Akonadi issue, can its requirements be setup by default in slackware? Also the dpi issue, how can I tell if its a Slackware issue or X issue, i.e. whom do I report it to.