Lumina is nice, and I think I will have to rebuild it for Slackware-current because of library incompatibilities, but it is barely more than a Window Manager. It needs applications, which it does not provide itself.

Since Lumina is Qt5 based, it would make sense to give it Qt5 based applications, but those are not part of Slackware yet.
Then again you will get to the point where you have to conclude that KDE4 is dead and unmaintained, and should be removed from -current as soon as possible. And then there's the question: should Slackware include Plasma5 yes or no? If Plasma5 is not included, then Lumina will not add any real value, since you'll be stuck with just the applications that come with XFCE and the rest in the XAP package series that are mostly not built against any version of Qt. You could just as well use Fluxbox then, or XFCE itself, and leave Qt5 out of Slackware.
A horrible scenario in my view.

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@AlienBob Thank you for considering a rebuild for current, although I'm still using 14.2. As for the missing applications... As a desktop user and not a developer, my choice of applications include Vivaldi, Waterfox, KeePassXC, VIPAccess, Claws-Mail (with Gmail/gcalendar plugin integration), XnView, GIMP, Pidgin, OpenOffice Suite, XMMS, MPlayer, Wire, Emacs, GNUCash, MasterPDFEditor. Yes, many of these are added Slackware applications, ones I hope become standard. Only a few of them actually require QT5 as a dependency. Lumina does not say it is a Desktop Manager, it is a Window Manager, managing hardware directly. But Lumina is a good actively developed Window Manager. The only KDE applications that I occasionally use are K-Games and Dolphin. Before finding Lumina I was using FVWM (latest version locally packaged) and customize. I had also previously customized XFCE, but found it was using as much memory as when KDE4 loaded. So I went in search of a highly configurable WM under active development, which is easier than FVWM config scripts. Now I'm not a developer, so maybe there are pieces of KDE core that I'm not aware are loading (although I frequently open htop and look for kdeinit/klauncher). Just my two cents that a Slackware user can run Slackware for office and home without KDE. Since KDE4 is unsupported now, I've actually considered running setup and removing KDE totally. But I'm currently not pressed for disk space, so it is left to be called a "full Slackware install" when I need assistance from all you wondering Slackware experts here at LQ and on IRC ##slackware. Cheers

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As there a packages in slackware that depend on Qt, i assume it won't be dropped. Like Lumina there's lots of software which benefits from Qt, completely apart from Kde/Plasma5.
I don't see much horror if Plasma5 isn't included in slackware, as long Qt stays and will be upgraded to qt5.
Plasma5 could be built outside of slackware with even more bells and whistles.

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Which packages from Slackware depends on Qt, excluding those from KDE4 and its support fleet?

Poppler?

The question then is, who will maintain Plasma5 outside of Slackware in the event that it does not get included.

It takes a lot of time to keep Plasma5 up to date, because not only do I need to investigate dependency shifts, compilation issues, but also the upgrades in Slackware-current usually come at inconvenient times (Pat usually does not tell me when he updates the stuff) and then people start knocking on my door that Plasma5 is broken and demand updates. I am not always in the position to work hours at night to get new Plasma5 packages out of the door in one or two days, so this kind of stress and pressure is increasingly taking its toll.

Despite the fact that in the past I said that I would keep maintaining Plasma5 in the case where Pat would decide that it does not get added to Slackware, but would be willing to add all the required dependencies (not just qt5 but a lot more) into Slackware, I now feel that I will not be able to do this in future. I have been ill and visiting doctors since early december, and it shows in my output.

It has been too long already, I had expected Plasma5 to enter Slackware a year ago. There's a breaking point somewhere. Pray I don't get there.

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Hi Eric,

First of all, many thanks for your efforts in providing Plasma5 for Slackware. I appreciate that its not everybody's idea of a perfect environment, but what is? For me, its absolutely essential in order to support my video editing activities (kdenlive, and the excellent kaffeine for recording dtv off-air).

I appreciate that with -current undergoing massive (and regular) updates, it must make keeping Plasma5 aligned a nightmare. However, hopefully when the long overdue Slackware-15 is released, this will ease the pressure somewhat. Current has now diverged so far from 14.2 that I wonder how many more things Pat is waiting for before making a new, "stable" release. A new LTS kernel perhaps?

In the meantime, take this as an appreciation of all your efforts, which I'm sure are reflected in the large, silent majority of Slackers out here.

Cheers,

--
Pete

7 members found this post helpful.

Thanks Pete.

This list is likely incomplete, and besides apps that may be compiled with either qt/gtk frontends:

doxygen
xpdf
gnuplot
scim
v4l-utils
wpa_supplicant
Audacious (will drop the gtk-gui in favour of qt with coming major releases)

3 members found this post helpful.

Apart from the discussion about plasma5 being stable or very huge(size), having Plasma5 in slackware means an incredible workload.
Besides that Pat knows when he updates stuff, the whole burden in maintaining Plasma5 stays the same if it's on Pat's site.
Maybe it's just too much.

Get well soon.

5 members found this post helpful.

Sometimes I wonder how much will help if we make a "Requests for Plasma5" thread, where the forum users to track the updates for Plasma5, just like we do on "Requests for -current"

I think that a thread like this will reduce at least a bit Mr. Hameleers' workload on tracking the requirements for Plasma5. Thoughts?

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While I'm not a big fan of KDE5, I agree with you it should have been included in -current a long time ago. I installed it the other day just to get the up-to-date versions of the KDE application I like (and run from Xfce).

Very sorry to hear you have been ill and hope you have a speedy recovery. Your hard work over the years has certainly been sincerely appreciated!

3 members found this post helpful.

My main system works on KDE4, but my laptop (rather old) works great with Plasma5. I installed it to get used to plasma5.
From the time I installed it, I don't regret.
What you, Alien Bob, did with Plasma5 is invaluable to all slackers.

thanks

I don't think this would be as much help as you think. I imagine the requirements only adjust when new versions come out and they've added support for something new. Plus, this would rely on people building newer versions of Plasma5 before Eric gets to them.

I imagine if anyone is that gung-ho about Plasma5, Eric would welcome emails, but I don't think a thread on the forum would be as productive as you think.

@Eric, I hope you get to the bottom of your health troubles and that it's something that is relatively easy to take care of. While I'm sure there's some that would balk at the idea of you slowing down, I imagine most Slackware users, once aware of the issue, would be perfectly content for you to take the time you need to improve your health. While your contributions to Slackware have been nothing short of impressive, we'd rather have updates slow down or stop to ensure you're able to stay around for a long time.

Take care of yourself and don't worry about "those users" who might "encourage" you to ignore your medical problems to ensure they get the latest releases of packages you provide.

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@alienbob: New and demanding job in what sounds like a start-up while still covering old role until the new-hire starts 1st Feb (plus onboarding and mentoring for that person, so March/April realistically). Health issues. A lot of traveling. A family (they grow up quick then you miss them). As a semi-retired PHB I respectfully suggest a bit of (well-earned) slacking. Really. Slow Spring.

Slackware: I appreciate alienbob's work on Plasma 5 and associated applications. I have it installed on my testing laptop which runs current and the result is a fully functional desktop. I imagine that Mr Volkerding has to balance the desire to provide such a desktop with the overhead on dependency tracking and consistency. I will be interested to see how the result pans out, and would feel much happier once there is a stable funding model (recurrent periodic subscription or foundation or whatever). I could deal with a reduced core offer and fat desktops relegated to slackbuilds but others may disagree.

Apologies if this is off-topic.

2 members found this post helpful.

Eric, I hope you start getting better soon.

Eric, you offer a lot to the community. Thank you for being honest about the amount of work to package Plasma5 for the community. Thanks for letting us know it might not be possible to produce it with your current full time job responsibilities. I too hate it when my volunteer work starts to run my life and I get taken away from the job that cloths, feeds, and shelters my family. Something has to give and it should be the volunteer work. I hope you are feeling the support of the community both with encouragement for you contribution, willingness to assist, and financially to pay for servers. I know the test environment and public servers are not cheap. I hope you find my annual donation (subscription) for you packages helpful in defraying those costs. But know that I also deeply appreciate your efforts with KDE and KDE packages. My earlier comments were not to discourage you and your wonderful contributions to Slackware.

Come-on you KDE Plasma5 users, when is the last time you considered an annual donation to Eric, just as you do for Pat. The Slackware core team provide a ton of packages which would not be available if they didn't spend precious time doing the research, keeping track of upstream development, maintaining test environments, publishing, and then paying for the servers we access to get these wonderful ADD ONs to the base package. If you are a Slackware from Scratch user, then you have a clue of the time involved, the frustrations of tracing problems down, and of course the joy of getting a package finished, you also avoid the "Hey this isn't working and you need to fix it" from noobs and complainers about the package you laboriously publish for the public.

I do like the idea of a separate thread for Plasma5. A place where others can contribute to and help take the burden of keeping everything working correctly. I feel Pat has a large enough work load just keeping up with the kernel releases and 1000's of packages in the core system without adding Plasma5 to that load. I'm guessing if Pat tried to put Plasma5 in to the system, it too would have to be frozen and updated only for critical security issues. Which in the case of KDE4 meant ONE update since 14.2 release. Doesn't the KDE team release packages more frequently than once a year? So moving it to Pat doesn't really solve the issue of who maintains the package in the long run. Just my Two Cents. Cheers.

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