SlackwareThis Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.
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That's exactly my argument.
If Kigo is present in the full installation, it should be functional.
I have no problem with it not being included at all, but launching something that's there by default only to find out there's a piece missing that inhibits its function really hurts the experience.
In mitigation, the emphasised part comes across as somewhat entitled and arrogant. It's a criticism, it's what I would call a nitpick - and yes if you're the person maintaining the packages in question, it might piss you off - you need to see if from the other perspective.
Then you repeat your demand:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrutinizer80
Yes I understand. However, as I said in a previous reply,
Since the package is present in the full installation, it should be functional or not be there at all.
Running into a loading error in a built-in package that's a part of a default full installation really hurts the experience.
And it reinforces the entitlement and arrogance.
That may not be your intention - but I can see it, AlienBob likely picked up on the same thing. Cultural differences, may mean that many others in the thread can't see it.
I'm not sure who was happy clicking with the "up vote" button, but that didn't help either. A whole anonymous "gang" backed you against AlienBob, along with a few other posters who chimed in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrutinizer80
It's trivial to fix by adding the required engine, and also trivial to remove.
If it's so "trivial", you can do it yourself. The user "experience" isn't hurt by one game not functioning. I can assure you that KDE is far less complete on the BSD's - and if you'd gone to any of their given ports mailing lists and made this "complaint" to the port maintainer(s), the reaction would have been much the same.
You essentially came across as someone demanding that unpaid volunteers compile software and include it in Slackware for you, so that the OS "experience" meets your expectations. There is a solution for that, it's called Ubuntu/Debian/Mint, etc...
...somewhat entitled and arrogant...a nitpick...the entitlement and arrogance...That may not be your intention...Cultural differences...anonymous "gang"...
If it's so "trivial", you can do it yourself...You essentially came across as someone demanding that unpaid volunteers compile software and include it in Slackware for you, so that the OS "experience" meets your expectations. There is a solution for that, it's called Ubuntu/Debian/Mint, etc...
WOW, this was painful to read. Please look into hostile attribution bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_attribution_bias), re-read the initial post again, and consider the possibility that it can be taken at face value and there is no malevolent motive at work.
As a huge Slackware fan and lurker on these forums, I hate to think that this is the way we're treating each other.
On the initial subject of the post, my understanding has always been that a Full Install of Slackware comes with dependencies resolved (within reason). Whether this is more of a KDE issue or Slackware issue is just finger-pointing. It's extremely reasonable to debate removing a feature with unresolved dependencies (or resolving them), and how to go about doing that.
My issue with the OP is his high-horse demeanor, not having used Slackware since 3.0 and suddenly barging in that an application needs to be removed from Slackware because it is "broken" because of a "bug". This is not a bug, the package is not broken, it starts fine, but it needs an additional piece of software to work.
Some more examples:
Kamoso, the KDE video recorder, does not work in Slackware because it depends on a piece of functionality in 'gst-plugins-bad' which is not part of standard Slackware. You can find it at SlackBuils.org though.
Slackware's networkmanager is not able to connect to Cisco VPN servers because an openconnect package is not included in Slackware.
Slackware lacks a freerdp package, so krdp is unable to connect to Microsoft servers.
These too are not "bugs", and you - the user - can easily resolve it.
You can extend Slackware's capabilities yourself and should not expect Slackware to do everything for you. There's other distros that will hold your hand.
And what we have here folks is probably 90% of the reason people leave or not get involved with slackware. I've left long ago, but read these forums as a reminder why I left. Sad as it is.
And what we have here folks is probably 90% of the reason people leave or not get involved with slackware. I've left long ago, but read these forums as a reminder why I left. Sad as it is.
Back in the day, maybe I would agree with you. But, even then, this place was an oasis of calm compared to a.o.l.s. Folks have been rather pleasant the past year I've been lurking. The biggest issue I saw was that folks seemed to be too willing to reply with "Slackware 15 will be ready when it's ready" instead of acknowledging there was a serious problem with the delay in dropping a stable release - and attacking anyone that stated otherwise. That seems to have changed - hopefully it continues.
It will be interesting to see how the forum changes when 15 drops. There will be new folks posting with the usual questions/comments. I think the current regular posters have been very welcoming and helpful and I have no reason not to expect that to continue.
installed by default. Kamoso now works OOTB but still sucks donkey balls. Krdp now works OOTB but I've lost interest in MS stuff. Slackware added openvpn instead of openconnect. One can't expect any particular distro to include all possible flavors, especially for some niche applications. That is what repositories are for, and, for that we have Slackbuilds.org.
Back in the day, maybe I would agree with you. But, even then, this place was an oasis of calm compared to a.o.l.s.
I've nothing against this place other than the fact that usenet was the pinnacle of online communication, with anything web being primitive and clumsy in comparison, as far as the clients and threading technology all goes. Oh and there's that web forums somehow always seem to require admins with the usual admin mentality that you can't let people just do whatever, oh heaven no that's anarchy and will never do.
Aside from all that, as far as the notorious usenet culture goes, these days a.o.l.s. is very calm and when there are posts it seems to me they are always thoughtful and polite. There are few posts but is there really so much to say now?
As far as where Slackware is at as a distro, I tell you I'll never use any other Linux distro again unless I find lots of time and make something out of my much more stuck than slackware linux from scratch partition. Got issued a linux laptop this week with Ubuntu. Holy crap. Figured I didn't neeed gphoto for a work laptop and started down that road trying to undo bits of ubuntu-desktop-minimum or whatever it's called. Man, I used to be kind of skeptical about the anti-dependency views here, figuring you're kind of fetishists or something, but I've never seen aptitude have such trouble before. The whole Linux userland software space has bloated to whole new levels. This whole plan of the distro fully controlling and rigidly demanding all your deps, well the result is really just Mac OS done badly, to be frank. Hopefully I can change to twm once I get clear what is needed to connect to our network. But I think I'll just leave the mass of desktop dependencies on there this time. "Run away! run away!"
And what we have here folks is probably 90% of the reason people leave or not get involved with slackware. I've left long ago, but read these forums as a reminder why I left. Sad as it is.
Sadly, this post does not add anything. The post it quoted is actually very insightful, the major section "This is not a bug...You can extend Slackware's capabilities yourself" says what is the case. Front-ends are there (for your convenience) but (some) back-ends need to be filled in. That surrounding sentences are not immediately translated as 'welcoming', ah well; doesn't need to put you off from using Slackware.
Aside from all that, as far as the notorious usenet culture goes, these days a.o.l.s. is very calm and when there are posts it seems to me they are always thoughtful and polite. There are few posts but is there really so much to say now?
It's been a LONG time since I ventured into usenet. The ISPs seems to have dropped it when it became the land of kiddie porn and, as far as I was concerned, there was not enough benefit to pay extra for the service. Google groups is available of course, but it's not quite the same. There is a certain nostalgia I suppose. There were some very smart folks there to be sure. And some quality trolls as well. I know - quality trolls? But yes, it could be quite amusing at times.
WOW, this was painful to read. Please look into hostile attribution bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_attribution_bias), re-read the initial post again, and consider the possibility that it can be taken at face value and there is no malevolent motive at work.
As a huge Slackware fan and lurker on these forums, I hate to think that this is the way we're treating each other.
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