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Old 07-21-2021, 12:22 PM   #46
zeebra
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Let's not forget that 100 million + people run FreeBSD fork on Playstation 4 and Playstation 5. Looking at the work Sony has done with their system, it has worked out quite well. In general it is an "always online" system with a massive network behind etc etc, yet the "jailbreakers" have basically given up on PS4. There was a large "jailbreaking" community on PS3, and initially on PS4 as well, but Sony seem to have really been able to lock it down on PS4, and undoubtedly will lock it even harder on PS5 by removing the web browser and related potential weaknesses.

Anyways, I think it worth mention as a successfull FreeBSD mass scale implementation.

But ofcourse, that is corporate sponsored production OS for their own use on their own designed hardware.

But, as far as I can understand, one of the main issues with BSD is the lack of supported hardware. You can't just install it on a consumer device and expect it to support all or most the hardware, unlike modern Linux. PC manufacturers basically only ship drivers and support for Windows. They could swap to FreeBSD if they wanted, and it would be a great system for those products, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:12 PM   #47
cynwulf
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To be impartial, as a long term FreeBSD and OpenBSD user, I think one of the main issues with FreeBSD is the state of ports such as KDE and gnome. These run flawlessly on Linux, clearly as intended by their respective developers, but are sluggish and often barely functional on FreeBSD due to their being built around Linuxisms and of course systemd. I recently tried installing KDE and ssdm on FreeBSD 13.0 and it seems like step back from the situation with 12.2-release. I already had quite few issues with the installation on 12.2, but this only added to them. I won't detail them all here as this is not a request for help.

But I have gotten used to clearing out core dumps on a regular basis and dealing with various parts of the GUI which don't work or crash and logging in twice to unlock the screen, USB sticks not unmounting, etc, etc.

FreeBSD is a server OS, you will hear and that's ok by me. But for those expecting, at the very least the basic functionalty and some stability, not the full blown systemd/Linux experience, they would need to look elsewhere.
 
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:55 PM   #48
Trihexagonal
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I just updated my site to include screenshots from 12 different FreeBSD forum members, each with a page of their own showing at least one different Window Manager or Desktop Environment in use. The newest shot I have up is FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE but there is:

Ratpoison
LXQt
XFCE
FVWM
Openbox
i3WM with i3blocks
BSPWM
JVM
KDE
Gnome3
Gnome2
Mate
TWM
Fluxbox
Fluxbox with icons

The shots of Mate and Gnome2 are my screenshots of Solaris and OpenIndiana boxen, OpenBSD and NetBSD desktops are also represented.

I show you how to add icons to your menu in my Building A FreeBSD Desktop From Scratch Beginners Tutorial. There is also one on How To Spoof Your Ether MAC on FreeBSD without dropping the interface and over 60 free wallpapers.

https://trihexagonal.org/

Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional and Level 3 CSS!
No Ads!
No Scripts!
And it's all Free!!!

Last edited by Trihexagonal; 07-24-2021 at 06:56 PM.
 
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:36 PM   #49
zeebra
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
different Window Manager or Desktop Environment in use.
Awesome!
But..
I think if I was to really use FreeBSD (which I have considered) with a GUI, I would probably go for Enlightenment aka "E" aka "e23" (currently). On GNU/Linux I'm using KDE, but I think I'd surely ditch it on FreeBSD.

Seems to me FreeBSD Englightenment would be a nice combo.

Last edited by zeebra; 07-24-2021 at 07:40 PM.
 
Old 07-25-2021, 02:09 PM   #50
Trihexagonal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Seems to me FreeBSD Englightenment would be a nice combo.
I don't have shot of anyone running that so if you decide to make the move and get a desktop set up I could probably find room for one or two more different DE or WM. I do seem to remember someone running it though.

I can get by with XFCE on my Kali box but like LXDE best for a DE.

I've put up more wallpapers since last night. Things always likely to change the first few days after a site upgrade.
 
Old 07-25-2021, 02:56 PM   #51
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
I don't have shot of anyone running that so if you decide to make the move and get a desktop set up I could probably find room for one or two more different DE or WM. I do seem to remember someone running it though.

I can get by with XFCE on my Kali box but like LXDE best for a DE.

I've put up more wallpapers since last night. Things always likely to change the first few days after a site upgrade.
Well, I was considering it, but I decided against it. Instead I decided to move away from systemd distro(s) towards non-systemd, mainly to Slackware (again), when v15 is finally released. I can only speak for myself, but that will be "struggle enough" as I plan to move away from all the luxuries and to implement alot of things I have practiced and plan to practice. Those kind of things still require alot of learning and effort on my part, and so does routines that replace "luxrury" with "manual labour".
My thought is that moving to FreeBSD when I'm already so familiar with GNU/Linux but still have to get more familiar with some important things, would be even more of a struggle, in particular to actually just get it running on my hardware. And since I do have some GNU/Linux options still, it's a better choice for now.

Some people even say Slackware is almost a bit like FreeBSD, and most so among GNU/Linux distroes. I will probably try FreeBSD despite that, to try to get more familiar with it, and try to grasp the basics (that are different from GNU/Linux), but I'm not sure HOW yet. Most likely I will have to try it as a virtual machine, maybe also with some container tech if possible, and perhaps trial run it as dual boot to see how it really reacts on my machine.

The reason behind this is not only systemd, but GNU/Linux is becoming somewhat bloated, and so many "bad users" are joining, so the environment surrounding the OS is no longer the same as it used to be. This often leads to pandering to their needs instead of the more traditional user.
 
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:05 PM   #52
zeebra
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I think some of the above reasons are also not uncommon among GNU/Linux users who consider FreeBSD as an alternative.
 
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Old 07-26-2021, 01:53 AM   #53
Trihexagonal
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There is definitely a learning curve to it, though I'm sure you'd pick right up on it. If you have newer hardware I'd ask first to make sure it's supported.

If closing the top on you laptop doesn't send it into Suspend or Hibernate is a deal-breaker for you, then stop right now. When you open it up it's more likely to still be running like you never closed it. I have 7 laptops running FreeBSD but use them as desktops, so it's not an issue for me.

The Community expects yo to have done your homework before asking questions and RTFM or the Handbook something someone who hasn't is likely to hear. When you have there is never any shortage of people willing to help you out. People are generally pretty friendly, except for me.
 
Old 07-30-2021, 10:11 AM   #54
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
I think some of the above reasons are also not uncommon among GNU/Linux users who consider FreeBSD as an alternative.
Some time ago, somebody asked in the Slackware forum what would we choose to run if Slackware disappeared. I answered, one of the BSDs. I tried FreeBSD briefly in VBox years ago - it seemed OK. Haven't tried any of the other BSDs...yet.
 
Old 07-30-2021, 04:25 PM   #55
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
There is definitely a learning curve to it, though I'm sure you'd pick right up on it. If you have newer hardware I'd ask first to make sure it's supported.
So, I've been playing around with KVM and various virtual machines to contain Firefox since it's so darn problematic, yet such a good browser (just not natively on/for the OS), but I've yet to find a good guest. I even ran a short trial of FreeBSD and tested things out.

I think once I move over to Slackware 15 as main, I will build a KVM FreeBSD guest. But the more permanent solution for Firefox will be a container, and I think FreeBSD will be a good choice for that as well. I guess by default I can also maybe double-whammy by jailing Firefox inside the FreeBSD container. Time will tell I guess, what's possible too (container+jail?). But one of the issues with GNU/Linux distro was trying to find a reasonably lightweight one, which was not really possible.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 07:23 AM   #56
Trihexagonal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
But the more permanent solution for Firefox will be a container, and I think FreeBSD will be a good choice for that as well. I guess by default I can also maybe double-whammy by jailing Firefox inside the FreeBSD container. Time will tell I guess, what's possible too (container+jail?). But one of the issues with GNU/Linux distro was trying to find a reasonably lightweight one, which was not really possible.


I've never used a VM or a jail. A lot of people do but that sounds like more trouble than it's worth just to run Firefox.

I think you would have an easier time of it if you dual-booted or got a used Thinkpad off ebay to run FreeBSD on. I paid $286 delivered for the Lenovo Thinkpad W520 I'm using now. I have a couple T61 I got for $50 each, all running FreeBSD.

All the hardware is supported and they're never low on resources. If you use pkg to install 3rd party programs it's a lot quicker than using ports. I show how to to edit System and Security files in my tutorial. In 3 hours you should have all your programs installed, tweaked to suit your preference and ready to go online.

Once set up it's relatively simple to stay up to date:

Code:
root@bakemono:/ # portsnap fetch update
Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 4 mirrors found.
Fetching snapshot tag from ipv4.aws.portsnap.freebsd.org... done.
Latest snapshot on server matches what we already have.
No updates needed.
Ports tree is already up to date.
root@bakemono:/ # pkg audit -F
vulnxml file up-to-date
0 problem(s) in 0 installed package(s) found.
root@bakemono:/ # freebsd-update fetch
Looking up update.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 2 mirrors found.
Fetching metadata signature for 12.2-RELEASE from update2.freebsd.org... done.
Fetching metadata index... done.
Inspecting system... done.
Preparing to download files... done.

No updates needed to update system to 12.2-RELEASE-p9.
root@bakemono:/ #
Three commands. That's the extent of it unless there are vulnerabilities found in programs you've installed or updates to the Base System.

Becoming familiar with the file system hierarchy and the information in the Handbook what's most important. If you do have problems you can't work out on your own there is always someone willing to help you out in the forums.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 09:40 PM   #57
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
I've never used a VM or a jail. A lot of people do but that sounds like more trouble than it's worth just to run Firefox.
For sure, but Firefox is just so troublesome (but necessary). Anyways, I found out that Mozilla does not have an official FreeBSD release/support, doh.. I know it's possible to get Firefox from FreeBSD and that is is basically official, yet for my purpose this is a little bit troublesome.

It was interesting with FreeBSD as a VM. So similar to GNU/Linux, yet so different, but it kind of reminds me of Slackware. Anyways, I don't think the VM/Firefox will work. Performance is just so bad and even 32bit firefox is a resource hog.

Anyways, I think I will be doing some other FreeBSD testing with KVM, and I think there is potential for interesting use of KVM/FreeBSD. Not only due to FreeBSD, but also KVM. It seems alot of people these days are implementing things like virtual machine servers etc. It's a concept well worth exploring. In my case ofcourse mostly to learn about FreeBSD and differences from GNU/Linux.
 
  


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