rtmistler does not appear to be complaining about people having to learn how to ask question, but rather people who seem to ignore the answers they get.
My guess is most of those people ignore answers they do not believe are correct, which means they need an education of a different kind.

I see the thread was moved. That wasn't my intention. I feel the subject has been canvassed a great deal in at least one other Suggestions & Feedback thread, if not several, and I literally was just letting some steam out and it seems a few agreed in commiseration. That's all, steam dissipated.

Well,

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ve-4175557724/

I've gone as far as I can go in that thread. Equipment is too new. I just don't understand the replies. You have language barriers. It is not a Linux Question but more of a equipment hardware question. One tries to teach. But if I don't know. I don't know.


Definitely newer gear than I have. But it looks like one of those down the rabbit hole threads to me.

Edit: I say the above because info on replies are sparse and it looks like the OP wants you to force a answer out of them. Not something a broke down side of the road problem I like to troubleshoot.

You are so cool thanks for the love bro.
Man with love like this in the forums people should just get inline for the next post from you.
I love you to.

Let me translate this to a newbie . I wish there was a way to give good advise and teach people at the same time.
I really feel let down to spend all that time to get responses from people that do not seem to care.
I have been a user in linux questions so long that people should really take me serious. And it saddens me people do not.
They come here for help and just do not do what I want them to do.
Dude big hugs and a reach around for you wonderful feed back.
I love you so much.

I don't think that thread is going anywhere as he just repeats the same symptoms. They need to read the manual for the server/motherboard and go from there - the server has a number of SAS+SATA RAID controllers and there's no telling how those have been set up.

I absolutely agree with your sentiment, and echo it. But to me there is a WORLD of difference between not knowing the question to ask, and "Give links for xxx" or "Where can I download YYY?". Not knowing is "I'm trying to write a bash script as part of an assignment...I've found links xxx, yyyy; are they good ones to get started with?" As opposed to "I need a script for my requirement". The first shows effort and a willingness to learn...the second does not.

THAT is where it goes from a learning place, to "look this up for me". To me, such comments are nothing but spam...they litter the forums, providing ZERO use to anyone for learning, no use for conversation, etc. If we spoon-feed someone a link to distro YYY, that's fine; right up until the link changes, and the next poor sap who DOES find that info on LQ will hit a dead link. That's why I suggested moderation/approval of any new posts until the poster hits xx number. Folks who want a handout will get rejected, and NO ONE will have to wade through those threads any longer. If such posters modify their behavior, and genuinely show effort, they'll be 'visible', and get help.

Look at the 'drive-by-posters' we typically get every time school starts; OP's with one or two posts: "Plz to be giving script for XXX, it's urgent", or "How to load NS2"...and they typically never return, even after getting help. Those folks aren't interested in the community, giving back, or learning..they're asking for handouts.

I have to disagree that every new post be put under moderation just because of a few freeloaders, lazy people or people who don't know how to ask a question. That's hitting the majority of new users with annoying restrictions because of the actions of a few.

I do see your point however that there is a huge difference between "do my sysadmin job/homework for me and walk me through step by step in setting up $SOFTWARE exactly according to my specific requirements and DO NOT give me advice regarding abc and DO NOT talk about foo because I KNOW it's not foo" and someone who is just completely lost, out of ideas and doesn't know how to phrase their question or what info to provide.

I feel the same way.
Here's another one.

I just gave up. "Figure it out."
Code tags. Really?
I wanted to tell him to install Windows.

I've been on boards and forums before where exactly the case is that any new persons who haven't had a certain number of questions, all their posts and questions are subject to moderation. That is not unusual in my book. Also, though, if a new user is properly versed and understands how to ask their questions and offer comments, their posts get put up. If that new user asks very poor questions, their posts will get rejected, they'll be notified that it wasn't posted and they'll be offered a chance to correct their post. Those who cannot or will not do that, or are just so far from acceptable, will never get there and as a result, their posts will not enter the common forums.

I think there are more than a few.

I realize this puts more work on the part of moderators. But ... won't the moderators eventually be called upon to contend with a bad poster? A poster who makes duplicate threads, or uses foul language? Maybe, maybe no.

Unfortunately I feel the only real way to deal with this problem is to have well versed moderators, our are very good. Enough of them, and enough coverage, so that delays in reviewing of new posts are minimal, and then practice something exactly like a "new poster restriction/review"; otherwise we shall continue in the manners we have been.

It makes sense to you from your perspective as a member who is already established here.

I've been here since 2005, but would not have stuck around more than a day or two if a system like that were in place back then.

Also, is it possible that this is a perceived problem rather than an actual problem? i.e. we find these threads annoying, but actually we don't have to bother to respond to them if we don't want to...

This is something I've brought up before - you cannot do anything about new users and what they post. Stickies, canned responses, rules and guidelines will all go unheeded. The people who will read those will most likely never be a problem anyway.

This is a big forum and will always get more than it's fair share of those types of users and their threads. Putting new users under moderation for a set period/number of posts is probably the only way to filter these out, but also risks alienating the people who have not done anything wrong. It's the 'guilty until proven innocent' approach - it may sound great to you, but it may not seem so great if you're on the receiving end.

So sue me.

@cynwulf, I think we just have different styles. No biggie.

Can anyone with a better clue than me let me know if Drakeo is patronizing?

We will always be the exception rather than the rule. Computers in society have gone pretty much the same direction as cars have. In the beginning you had a need to understand how a car works to operate them, but with the upcoming of mass productions and advances in the technology of cars this shifted. Cars were available to a large number of people and for most of them understanding how a car works is not necessary anymore. The mom that uses the car to buy groceries does not need to know how a car works, it is enough to know how to operate the car. If your car is broken you get a mechanic, someone who knows all that stuff, to look at it. This resembles the evolution of computing devices, in the beginning you had to know how it all works to operate a computer, nowadays computers are ubiquitous and there is no need for "normal users" to understand how they work. The secretary at the office does not need to know and the teenager visiting Facebook with his smartphone doesn't need to either. If something is wrong with their devices they get the IT guy, someone who knows all the stuff, to look at it.

The problem in both cases, the broken car and the broken computer, is that due to the lack of necessity of understanding how the stuff works there is also a lack in vocabulary and procedure that is needed to precisely describe a problem. This is not something new and it is not something that we (or car mechanics) can change at a grand scale, we only can try to change that on a case-by-case basis. This is why members post links to information about how to ask a proper question when they see that the first problem is that the asker doesn't know how to do that. After that, if you figure out that the person asking the question is not willing to ask a proper question, refuses to answer follow up questions or just wants others to do their job then you will have to determine for yourself if you still want spent your time trying to help that person. After all, LQ is entirely based on the member's voluntary work, we are not a commercial helpdesk where you have to deal with unwilling paying customers no matter what (and anyone that ever has worked on a helpdesk or in retail knows how toxic that can be). If you find trying to help those persons is a waste of your time or burns you out then stop doing it. astrogeek's approach of only posting in threads where he feels that he can help and that his help is actually appreciated (and if it is only by presenting a question as best as possible) is IMHO a very reasonable approach.

This is the same approach I would recommend for drive-by posters: They are not hard to recognize, either ignore them or answer nonetheless, it is up to you. Punishing every new member with sending their posts to the moderation queue just because a few people do not behave like we would like them to is not something I would recommend at all.

1 members found this post helpful.

Thanks for taking that up!

"Now look at ya, all back of the bus"... My Favorite Movie.

I agree it would be a small headache for new users, but as I said, only for the first few (maybe even 5) posts. After that, you've proven you know better. And if the post DOES pass moderation, it goes onto the board and the poster has no idea anything even happened, save for a small delay.

Honestly, I'd rather NOT do it, but I sure don't know any other way to keep such things away. Warnings don't work, and having to issue it over (and over...and over...and over....) again isn't nice for the members who DO participate.

2 members found this post helpful.