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Old 05-25-2017, 06:01 PM   #31
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
Yes, I tried that.
The installer said it cannot use that partition.
Need more information. What EXACTLY did you do, and what EXACTLY did it say? As has been said multiple times above, you MUST resize either sda4 or sda5 or delete sda1 or sda2 before you can do anything. You CANNOT install Linux, or even create a new partition, with the current partition layout.
 
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:52 PM   #32
jefro
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Might be some boot managers that can fool some of this. I used to use one a long time ago that could handle 100 OS's.

Last edited by jefro; 05-25-2017 at 06:54 PM.
 
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:22 PM   #33
pholland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
1. This seems self-explanatory to me: If a primary partition is lost, I am worried that data on an extended attached to that, will be lost too. It's not about going through the trouble of placing one's data in a different location, it's about protecting against data loss caused by issues from the main Windoze partition. Are you able to certify that if you delete or have a damaged primary, the extended attached to it will be just fine?

2. The installer refused to use an extended partition.

3. However, I would have no objections reinstalling Windoze onto an extended partition - but having done a factory restore a couple of times in the past, it does not give you the opportunity to choose your partition. It merely restores to C: (and thankfully ignores any other primary partition, like my data partition D)
1. I cannot so certify. So do nothing to the Windows system partitions. Backup the data in the sda5 partition before doing anything else so that data will not be lost.

2. Correction. The installer refused to use that 103 GiB space.

3. No such reinstallation is necessary.

Referring to the 4 partitions text figure, here is what I would do:
1. Backup any data files in sd5, which is a logical partition.
2. Move the left end of sda5 so it includes the 103.95 GiB of unallocated space.
3. Move the right end of sda5 so the partition contains approximately 200 GiB. Reformat sda5 as NTFS or exfat as preferred.
4. There should be approximately 230 GiB of now unallocated space following sda5. Create three new logical partitions in that space: sda6, around 4 GiB, formatted as swap; sda7, 20-80 GiB, formatted as ext4 for the linux OS; and sda8, the remaining space, formatted as ext4 for linux data.


When installing a linux distribution, tell the installer to put the OS in sda7.

Install Linux Reader (free) in the C: partition. https://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/

Good luck.
 
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:13 PM   #34
Timmi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pholland View Post
2. Correction. The installer refused to use that 103 GiB space.
No, not correction:
The first thing I tried, was to create an extended partition, and to install to that.
That is why I answered to the those who suggested it, that the installer refused to install to an extended partition.
 
Old 05-25-2017, 08:52 PM   #35
RadicalDreamer
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Maybe Puppy Linux would be a better option. It installs in C:/ on Windows and you can boot up to it with a disc or usb drive.

I have /dev/sda1 for PQSERVICE and /dev/sda2 for Windows 10. I have /dev/sda3 as extended which is broken down as root and linux swap, then I have /dev/sda4 for my linux data partition.

I think linux needs to be installed under the extended partition. If it can be added to the data partition then you can resize and move the data so that there is space at the end for linux. If you are worried about moving the data around you can get an external hard drive and make a backup. Just don't touch the first 3 partitions. If you touch Windows 7 you might end up having to reinstall it.
 
Old 05-25-2017, 09:09 PM   #36
rknichols
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
The first thing I tried, was to create an extended partition, and to install to that.
According to the image you showed, you already had an extended partition (sda4), and I don't see how you created another one without having a primary partition slot available for it.

By any chance, did you try to install directly to an extended partition? The only thing you can do with an extended partition is to create logical partitions within it. You should then be able to install to those logical partitions.

FWIW, I set up a disk drive with partitions like you originally posted, and gparted made it very easy to expand the extended partition to the left into the unallocated space and then create 3 logical partitions there (root, swap, boot). A Mint-17.3-xfce ISO that I happen to have was quite happy to install to those partitions and boot successfully.
 
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:27 PM   #37
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
No, not correction:
The first thing I tried, was to create an extended partition, and to install to that.
That is why I answered to the those who suggested it, that the installer refused to install to an extended partition.
No, you didn't. You couldn't have, the partitioner wouldn't have let you. This is why I asked you to describe EXACTLY what you did, and EXACTLY what the installer complained about, because what you have said you did is impossible. Not only could you not create an extended partition because you already have four primary partitions, one of which is already extended, but you can't install directly to an extended partition anyway, it's just a container in which you can place logical partitions. You couldn't have created a logical partition either, because the only extended partition in which you could have made it, sda4, is completely full.

You've been given the solution MANY MANY times already in this thread. Have you understood what has been communicated to you? Have you listened, and tried to follow the instructions?

All you need to do is expand sda4, essentially moving your unallocated space into your existing extended partition, and then create your logical partitions for Linux inside sda4. That's it. It should take all of 10 minutes. If you DON'T expand sda4 and move the unallocated space into it, then you cannot install Linux. You can't install any OS, you can't even create a new partition. You're stuck, unless you want to delete one of your existing primary partitions. The easiest solution is to just expand sda4.

Last edited by suicidaleggroll; 05-25-2017 at 09:35 PM.
 
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:02 AM   #38
DVOM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
1. This seems self-explanatory to me: If a primary partition is lost, I am worried that data on an extended attached to that, will be lost too. It's not about going through the trouble of placing one's data in a different location, it's about protecting against data loss caused by issues from the main Windoze partition. Are you able to certify that if you delete or have a damaged primary, the extended attached to it will be just fine?

2. The installer refused to use an extended partition.

3. However, I would have no objections reinstalling Windoze onto an extended partition - but having done a factory restore a couple of times in the past, it does not give you the opportunity to choose your partition. It merely restores to C: (and thankfully ignores any other primary partition, like my data partition D)
Number 1) Primary and extended/logical partitions are NOT joined or attached in any way.

Number 2) You cannot install a linux OS or store any data to an extended partition, you need a logical partition within the extended to use it in any way.

Number 3) You cannot install any version of Windows on a extended or logical partition, you need a primary partition to install Windows.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by DVOM; 05-26-2017 at 12:15 AM.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 12:02 AM   #39
Timmi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
No, you didn't. You couldn't have, the partitioner wouldn't have let you. This is why I asked you to describe EXACTLY what you did, and EXACTLY what the installer complained about, because what you have said you did is impossible. Not only could you not create an extended partition because you already have four primary partitions, one of which is already extended, but you can't install directly to an extended partition anyway, it's just a container in which you can place logical partitions. You couldn't have created a logical partition either, because the only extended partition in which you could have made it, sda4, is completely full.

You've been given the solution MANY MANY times already in this thread. Have you understood what has been communicated to you? Have you listened, and tried to follow the instructions?

All you need to do is expand sda4, essentially moving your unallocated space into your existing extended partition, and then create your logical partitions for Linux inside sda4. That's it. It should take all of 10 minutes. If you DON'T expand sda4 and move the unallocated space into it, then you cannot install Linux. You can't install any OS, you can't even create a new partition. You're stuck, unless you want to delete one of your existing primary partitions. The easiest solution is to just expand sda4.
WOW!
You sure are sounding angry and violent. Not just condescending anymore.

I need to deal with some data no longer showing at the moment. I have no idea why, but that Data partition used to be a primary. I have got no clue how it got switched to an extended (it's not supposed to be). And the latest, is Windoze and MiniPartitionToolWizard see it as an NTFS (it WAS Fat32 for universal compatibility reasons). Trying out several scanners to recover all my family photos and such (that were taken since my last backup a few years ago). So I'll be busy with that - need to get that fixed before I can validate what you wrote.

Last edited by Timmi; 05-26-2017 at 12:03 AM.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 12:08 AM   #40
Timmi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVOM View Post
Number 1) Primary and extended partitions are NOT joined or attached in any way.
Number 2) You cannot install anything to an extended partition, you need a logical partition within the extended to use it in any way.
Number 3) You cannot install any version of Windows on a extended or logical partition, you need a primary partition to install Windows.
Hope this helps.

I install this stuff once every few years.
So I guess I completely forgot some of those details: extended+logical.
It's clearer when I'm looking at it all in GParted, as it doesn't allow you to continue if you've left out a step.

I'll do some data recovery and get back to this as soon as I have it back.

Thanks
 
Old 05-26-2017, 12:32 AM   #41
DVOM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
Yes, I tried that.
The installer said it cannot use that partition.
According to the pic you posted, no you do not have the required logical partition.. You don't have a logical partition to install Mint into.
 
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:11 AM   #42
rtmistler
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Hi Timmi,

You've been with LQ long enough to know that you should be clear with what you've tried, that it is helpful for you to describe the steps leading to your problem clearly, and it is also helpful to provide feedback to those trying to help you.

What this thread shows is that you have cited some problems, others have tried to offer solutions or suggestions towards solutions and two or three times you have reacted badly towards some of the advice givers.

You seem to be frustrating people with a lack of organization about your problem and a tendency to not accept their opinions about a potential system limitation, or explain clearly what exact errors you are encountering when you attempt something and find it does not work.

Your picture at the start of this is an excellent start to describe your problem. You cite that you have errors from the installer related to this 104G partition, but I'm not sure I see the exact installer error clearly cited here.

I feel your suggestion that you need to regroup and will report back later on this thread is an excellent idea.

I do realize that things are frustrating, however I will add that emitting answers back at members with the intentions to chastise them for their comments will not help this situation improve:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
WOW!
You sure are sounding angry and violent. Not just condescending anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
No I didn't believe they actually had 255 heads. Did you? Or were you just in the mood to belittle and to insult?
Such a wonderful welcome to the Linux community here, by you two.
Maybe you want me to just stay with Windoze.
If you don't want newcomers to Linux, keep it up, you're doing the right thing, and in the right place, the newbie forum.
You are not new to Linux, nor the LQ community, your first thread from 2009 and you've participated in the forums a number of times asking and responding to questions, very helpfully also I would add. I feel you do understand how LQ works and how an online forum works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
Resolved it how?
Instead of being insulting, have you really read what is going on here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
Here's an idea:
Is there a way to just edit the MBR
and rem (comment-out) references to the first 2 partitions?
So that the system ignores them, doesn't see them, partition tools don't see them?
(and if I need them, I just un-rem those lines in the MBR)
This is an example of some very "out of the box" and advanced thinking, of which I know you are fully capable from reviewing your prior activities on LQ.

I feel you have a grasp of what you wish to do with your system. Perhaps it would be better to re-review some comments, not worry about any slights of character you exist and instead see if the points made by others as well as some suggestions can be helpful to attain what you wish to do. In the future, if you feel another member has crossed a line of politeness, then please use the Report button to request review by the moderators of that post.

You seem to have cited that you wish to do one thing.

Several advice givers have replied that they feel it is not capable of being achieved. Please evaluate that and if you cannot find a contradicting fact, then suggest you consider accepting their point of view.

Next, there are many varieties of alternate things you could try, but you would be the person to best determine which alternative will serve you best.
 
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:22 PM   #43
Timmi
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@rtmistler, and others: patience, please.

I thought of a possible solution. I would shrink my D:data by 1gb, to give me an area at the very end where to store a ghost image of the 100MB partition. Then disable that 100MB parition and leave that space alone for future restore (either through partition recovery or ghost the backup back onto there). This would free up a space for an extra primary partition that I need.

In doing so, the software did something to mess up my D. The moment I started becoming more silent is when I began downloading and trying out various data recovery utilities. When your data goes south, your priorities change and your focus shifts. I'll be back, re-read everything, and answer anyone's questions that may have been unanswered.

PS: while I'm not "new", I sort of am. I've used it on and off over the years. But my use of AutoCAD and it's requiring Windoze (as well as some other CAD programs) pulled me back to Windoze. So I never really had the chance to become fully devoted to Linux and give it all of my attention. It's been an on-and-off thing for me, and I never had the chance to go in depth. My understandings of systems are of a more general nature, for example, from when I built Apple-II clones with CP/M and later PC clones and dabbled in the very first serial and then co-ax peer-to-peer networks and scripts, in days long before the first Windoze came out. And that knowledge is kind of outdated and useless today. After those years I started developing anxiety and no longer could get so deeply involved - it became a bit of a trigger. I stepped away and became an end-user only. Today, all I have to go on, is a feel for things, and ideas (the thinking out of the box you mention). But by far, I have absolutely no clue as to what creative thing can be done here, nor how to edit a MBR (I've never touched that before). I was really hoping for some smart person to come up with something out of the box, an unorthodox approach or workaround, out of the norm if must be.
Thanks for your creative comments @rtmistler

Last edited by Timmi; 05-26-2017 at 12:33 PM.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 02:55 PM   #44
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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Have a look at WWW.symon.ru
I have been using that tool for years.

I only tend to use a dozen partitions - mainly because of keeping track of what is going on.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 04:17 PM   #45
DVOM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmi View Post
I was really hoping for some smart person to come up with something out of the box, an unorthodox approach or workaround, out of the norm if must be.
Thanks for your creative comments @rtmistler
Several people have told you how to fix your problem. Suicidaleggroll and I (and others) have given you a fix that would take about 5 minutes. You have ignored absolutely everything everyone has said to you.

Bye.
 
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