Hey blackhole54, great rejoinder, I agree with all your points, and will endeavor henceforth to limit my remarks to points directly relating ONLY to the subject at hand. I will attempt later today, when I return, and have some free time, to implement your suggestions about init.
Your description of LESS, was VERY appropriate. Excellent detail. Just what I need.
I am sorry to have been so angry, but, you see, I purchased the modem ONLY because of the SEVERAL posts on this LQ forum, PRAISING its compatibility with Linux, then, I purchased Slackware, after struggling with several other distros, and rereading the comments, particularly of pseudoluddite, suggesting that it required ONLY ten minutes to setup....I would love to learn precisely what he did during those ten minutes, because, I now figure that only unix savvy persons work with SLACKware, so, for them, changing init level is comparable to my understanding of the requirement to change directory, in DOS. Osvaldo has trouble imagining someone could be as ignorant as I am, fortunately, you understand!!! I am sure that Osvaldo means well, he just needs to realize that about 45 steps are required for a user to "modify x". Modifying x is about the LAST thing I hope to do on this planet.... I really just want my silly modem to work with Linux. I just want to turn on the computer, choose Linux, and click on the browser on the desktop to connect via dialup to the internet. I bet that for every ONE person like you and Osvaldo, there are A THOUSAND dummies like me out there, who EXPECT that upon INSTALLING Linux, they will be able to do exactly that! The guy or gal who comes along, realizing that FACT, and does something about it, is going to earn a lot of money. What is needed, in the interim, is for someone, perhaps me, who better?, to set up a comprehensive explanation of PRECISELY how to accomplish this idea, FOR THIS PARTICULAR modem, with whichever distribution. Hey I am not married to Patrick Volderding, I like him, I met him twelve years ago at a medical informatics congress, found him to be very impressive, as a human being, and always wanted to use his SLACKware, because he seemed to me, from talking with him, to be a great person. But, I am open to using ANY other distribution, if one of those is better suited to this task. Trouble is, I have had nothing but troubles with EVERY other distribution, thus far. Some of the distros, I cannot even reboot, following installation. Seems that getting this modem to work is not so easy, as folks suggested in the earlier discussion of it, a couple years ago....
Thanks again for your patience with me....

I wouldn't automatically sell Osvaldo short. I know nothing about him other than the posts on this thread. But I do know when you're trying to help a stranger on forums like this, one of the tricks is to try to figure what their level of knowledge is. You don't always get it right the first shot.

I would suggest you get a distro that you can install and that you are comfortable with. Please realize I can be wrong -- about anything. But it is my belief that this modem should be able to be made to work with just about any distro. I am willing to help you try, but you will have to work with me. I likely will not be familiar with the particular GUI interface you will be using, but I think I understand the underlying principles. And depending on where things go, I might expect you to read some man pages ("man" is short for manual -- most distros have these available as part of the installation) or do some googling.

I would suggest you install a distro that makes you comfortable. Unless I pick up the scent of something else, my ideas will probably be along the lines of what I already posted in #8.

So why don't you install something and post back when you have something we can work with. Do your own poking around in the menus to see what looks like it might be relevant. And remember, Google (or in general any search engine) is your friend.

Hi blackhole54,

Init as the manual says "is the parent of all processes." It "is invoked as the last step of the kernel boot sequence". That's why its pid (process id) is always 1.

Today you teached me about the processes displayed between brackets. Few years ago I wrote an script using ps to find what modem was available, doing a "ps ax" and greping for "mgetty". Sometimes, it was displayed as [mgetty} and, as I didn't discover the reason, I did kill it and rerun the script to look again as init would respawn it, with the tty line I wanted to see.

As the init process is the parent, I don't believe it can be swapped in a normal system. On an overloaded system, there are lots of programs which can be swapped first. I really googled until now for "swap init" but I didn't find nothing saying it can/can't be swapped, except a thread on BSD systems.

By the way, thankyou for my defense into the flames.

Caieng, I try to evaluate my answers based on the interaction with the other guy, in this case, you! I don't start as a Help Desk, asking "Did you plug the power cord" or "Did you switch power on", in respect to the person, from whom I don't know his/her background. If he/she asks to or I think he/she needs to be guided or even carried on all the 45 steps, I will!

I feel like you spread a false clue: install slackware. In spite the fact that it was the first linux I installed, more than 11 years ago, it's not a user friendly setup distro, as said by blackhole54. It was the first linux distro and the user needs some background to, at least, do the right questions.

The modem you have is the easier to install as you don't need any special software or kernel module to use it. Your problem must be on permission and port specification.

Please, don't take my words as fuel for more flame; as my native language is not the english, I have difficulties to express myself.

Good luck.

Osvaldo.

Yes, you and osvaldo are absolutely correct. This worked lovely. I typed the command, "init 4", after logging in as root, and then typed "startx", and then, WITHOUT striking the carriage return, (i.e. "enter key") the screen image changed immediately, and I was again obliged to login, once more, as root, and from this "darkwing" login prompt, I was transported right to kde!!! Then, at logout, as Osvaldo and blackhole54 both noted, I was given a screen to terminate the kde session, which was identical in appearance to the screen image when departing kde under runlevel 3, but with the important addition of a choice to shutdown the computer. Interesting to me, was the observation that NEITHER this kde termination screen action, NOR the command typed at the prompt, under init 3 ("shutdown -h now") actually results in PHYSICALLY TURNING OFF THE COMPUTER. I still must do that by hand, unlike the situation with xp, for example, but very much like exiting DOS. Perhaps there is some other command one must give, or some permission to exit, or something else, that will cause SLACKware to ACTUALLY shut down the computer. For the moment, I am unconcerned about this insignificant problem. Next, I will tackle the editor, and try to change that string, which Osvaldo kindly referenced, so that I will no longer need to type "init 4" every time I boot up. First, I will try to locate the file in the directory /etc: inittab....Maybe it will become more enjoyable, and less onerous, as I gradually understand what is going on. It is certainly a learning experience, and I am fortunate to have two wise instructors to assist me. Thanks again for your help.

1. At the command prompt (i.e. after logging in as "root", with the password provided during installation) type
"vim /etc/inittab" (without typing the quotation marks), and then hit the carriage return.
2. Using the DOWNWARD pointing arrow, move the cursor DOWN 24 lines:
this line will read:
"id:3:initdefault:" ;
This is the problem, of course. Patrick Volkerding's name appears at the top of this text file, so we know that he did not inadvertantly overlook the possibility of obliging the unixologists of this world to change the default level from 4 to 3, and instead condemned those miserable toads like me to suffer the indignity of awkwardly adjusting our time travel apparatus, so that SLACKware would boot directly into KDE by default.
3. Using the RIGHTWARD pointing arrow, move the cursor to the right, three positions. It should now be sitting directly on top of the Arabic numeral "3";
4. (half way finished!!!) type "r" (of course, without the quotation marks), and DO NOT HIT the carriage return;
5. type "4", again, no quotes, and NO CARRIAGE return;
6. type "ZZ" (same caveats, no quotes, no carriage return, and n.b. these ARE UPPER CASE Z's) n.b. means nota bene, for those not familiar with Latin, (i.e. (ille est--"that is") "pay attention")
7. Last bit: DO NOT TYPE "startx". NO. Now you must REBOOT the computer:
type: "shutdown -rF now"
That's it. The computer will reboot, and present a login with root as default, and one must only supply the password, unless there is some way to fix that bit of 1950's....That's a future challenge.

TMK, init spends most of its time swapped out on my system. That is how it was when I posted about it. I was now going to show you the output of ps 1 along with the output of free, but wouldn't you know it -- at the moment it is not swapped out; it is displaying as you stated. (And that is something that is new information for me! )

Granted, I am abusing my system, er, I mean using my sytem to its max by stressing its 112 MB of memory in all kinds of ways that aren't nice. (Sometimes I even have 2 or 3 GUIs running!) It's an old system running rather old software. (An update in software probably won't happen until I update hardware; I don't know when that might happen.) But anyway, I think it is common for init to be completely swapped out even thought the system might be using 30-50MB for cache+buffer. While init is the ancestor of all processes, TMK it doesn't do anything most of the time and so is a prime candidate for swapping.

Glad to do it.

You do just fine. On your first posts I assumed English was your native language until by chance I happened to notice what country you're from.

@caieng, if you see this post and think I am ignoring you, I am not. I just haven't gotten to your post yet. I am doing several things at the same time right now.

Just so you (and others) know, you did not need to type startx. The only reason you were given a chance was it took init a moment to get around to changing the screen.

You figured out vim (aka vi, well sort of). I am impressed! And I applaud you for writing this step-by-step to help others.

Don't you think you have used up your allowed quota of wise guy remarks? And as I've already noted, I am among those that like RL3. And it's actually the safter place to start after an installation in the event that for some reason (much less common than it used to be) the graphical system is totally hosed.

Actually shutdown -r now is sufficient. The capital F tells it to force an e2fsck when it reboots.

If by "that bit of 1950s" you are referring to passwords, please reconsider. I am quite certain there is a way to provide for an "empty password", but as I consider it a very bad idea I am not going to post it. IMNSHO, Bill Gates & Company with their "ease of use at all costs -- to heck with security" attitudes are a large reason the Internet is the infested mess it is, with millions of compromised windoze boxes spewing spam and all other manner of evil.

So unless you have a better authentication scheme in mind, please stick with passwords. (And even review some of the many articles on the Internet of "how to pick a good password".) Think of it in the same way you think of your front door key. Yes, it would be easier to leave your front door unlocked. But in a big city, it is really not a good idea. And the Internet is the biggest of cities. With all the "good neighborhoods" and "bad neighborhoods" mashed into one.

I write this response to the forum, USING Linux, connected to the internet by way of the Best Data Modem. This is my FIRST message to the rest of the world, using Linux. WOW, I am in AWE of this Slackware!
I have used off and on, various Linux distributions during the past eleven years, commencing with the 3 disk set from InfoMagic in 1995. I would spend 90 minutes trying to install it, abandon it after countless frustrations, and purchase a new flavor again, six months later, all the while thinking , "well, Linux isn't yet as good as win95, but....
A year ago, I read, on this forum, that the Best Data modem worked effortlessly, so, I purchased it, and tried to use it with a variety of distros. All failed. Last week, I reread the forum, saw how many people commented on the value of Slackware, and so, bought it. I am so glad I did, for that gave me a chance to learn something, and I was VERY fortunate to encounter blackhole54 and osvaldomarques, on this forum. I am indebted to you both for your excellent advice.
Permit me now, please, to answer my own question:
I asked HOW does one "configure" this modem?
ANSWER: It really is simple, else I could not have done it!
I am embarrassed by the simplicity of it all.
First, one must locate the program called kppp. This is not found where one would anticipate, i.e. someone thinking of a computer as an assemblage of electrical-mechanical DEVICES. NO, this program, KPPP, is found in the "network" folder. Clicking on kppp, one must ADD a new dialup provider name, and ADD a new modem, then answer some questions about the modem, changing the default connection speed setting to 115K, and then clicking on the icon to connect. That's it. Slackware is the answer, regardless of the question!!!

Well, in that case you may wish to NOT send me a private email message, explaining how one disables passwords, (and disables many other annoyances of Linux, too!), for I WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE ZERO tolerance for the notion of SUPPRESSING potentially useful information on the internet. I would post it, the next minute. In my opinion there would be no internet of any kind if your attitude had prevailed at DARPA.
I do, it is called a key. The key to my house. No one else has it. I don't have anyone else using my computer. I don't need, OR WANT, logins, passwords, permissions, and all the other apparatus from the Bell labs environment. I need and want something as simple as the revised, USB compatible win95.
I fear you may have misunderstood my "snide" comments. No, these rebukes are meant to stimulate THINKING--in this particular situation, thinking about WHY the DEFAULT run level should be 3, instead of 4. For you, a unix savant, it is banal, and trivial to change the runlevel to 3 from 4. You could literally accomplish this task while sleeping. However, for those of us not so intimately familiar with unix, folks who just understand, as I do, how to place the cdrom into the reader, this is a GARGANTUAN task. So, please accept again, my sincere gratitude for your very useful advice, and reconsider please, your notion that you know better than (many, most, all, some) users what it is that they want/need. I could not have submitted this post without your help!

You should have no difficulty finding instructions on how to make every file and directory on your system readable, writable and executable by everybody. If you do, you may become a proud owner of one of the few compromised Linux desktops. Admitedly you probably won't be running the risk most MS users do, but then it is difficult to create that kind of vulnerability.

Seriously, if plan on running passwordless make absolutely sure you aren't running ssh or any of the other remote access programs. I hope I don't see you posting on the security forum inquiring about your infested machine.


I try specifically not to inflict my personal preferences on others and I expect the same in return. The exception is rudimentary security steps. And in that case all I do is try to make people aware of the wisdom that has come from many people's experience and suggest they rethink the bad habits they have likely picked up in the MS world. As far as runlevels are concerned, I am well aware that many or most people prefer to boot into a GUI. That bothers me not one bit. My only problem is when you insisted on ridiculing the way things were done in Slackware, as if you had a right to be telling other people how they should be making their distros.

==========

Anyway, congratulations on getting things working

@osvaldomarques, I may have to eat my words about init usually being totally swapped out on my system. I have been checking it from time to time and have not seen that condition once since my last post (although it was totally swapped out when I first posted about it). However, I have seen it partially swapped out, but in that condition ps 1 still displays the runlevel.

Hi blackhole54,

What command do you use to see the swapped processes? You got me curious!

Caieng, congratulations for your accomplishment! I would suggest you to sit on the other side of the table. Try to figure why all this stuff that you firmly says you don't like it was created.

Don't forget that even before you were born, there was lots of wonderful people thinking and researching to achieve the revolutions needed for you gallantly install, boot and enter the internet with your fresh slackware in the twilight of 2006!

All the software you installed onto your Personal computer has the ideal of privacy and freedom of choice.

I'm telling you this because, at some time ago, before linux and windows was born, when I started with xenix, just arriving from dos, I felt that I couldn't live without my tsr's, my editors, assemblers, etc. I felt myself compelled to write my own editor, with a command set like the dos side-kick. That time was pre-internet, the best modems transmitted at astounding 2400 bps.

During this project, I started thinking how would I convince someone to copy my editor to his/her machine to edit something. Even if I convince he/she, I could forget my diskette with the editor, the diskette could be unreadable: I would be eternally frightened the horror of to put my hands on vi.

Based on this reasoning, I abandoned my project and tried to learn all the stuff that was inside my 286.

After few months, my thinking was: how could I live so long without these things?

So, the message I'm sending to you is: you have all the freedom to make your choices; just give yourself a chance to see other available options before you choose.

Good slack!

Osvaldo.

Hi osvaldomarques and blackhole54, Many thanks for your thoughtful replies, MUCH appreciated.
, yes, well, and I suppose a very good argument could be made along the lines of democracy, or economics, to favor the notion of having the DEFAULT setting at init=4, rather than 3, as at present, based upon this point, BUT THAT WAS NOT my argument. No. I insist that it ought to be changed from the present setting of 3, to 4, not because the VAST majority of people would prefer to boot directly into KDE, but because the vast majority of purchasers of Linux cdroms are dull and mildly demented, LIKE ME. I am not completely stupid, but nearly so. Most other folks are ALSO not geniuses. Most folks can read a little bit, and write somewhat, but that's about it. If I am watching Shakespeare on the television, it is with SUBTITLES, because I can't understand the English of that era. If I am reading something about Linux, it is almost impossible to follow what people are explaining, most of the time, (both of you are the exception to that rule!!!) osvaldomarques' English is superb, I can't write a single word in a foreign language, i.e. illiterate. So, in summary, my argument bears no relation to any notions of Patrick's freedom to do this or that, or which run level somebody thinks is more secure, or safer, or more customary, or more traditional, or ANYTHING ELSE, OTHER than, the massive deficit in neuronal function among the large quantity of potential Linux users. It is this deficit that triggers my suggestion to accord a standard among ALL Linux distros, to have the OS boot directly into KDE, without need for the user to change the default init level. That option, to change init level BACK to the old, original appearance, i.e. familiar text based computing, would still exist, but the folks who seek to do that understand how to perform this task, and can do so effortlessly, while the converse is simply false.
GREAT, well, since I am the everybody, there is no one else, then, I don't think that will be a problem. Umm, any link you would care to suggest for doing this? Using DOS, 95,98, and XP, I never needed a password, login id, or file permissions. That's a quarter of a century, without needing them. I can think of no reason to start using them now. I would also welcome any link to a reference on how to eliminate as much of the overhead in Linux, as possible, for the modem, good as it is, running in Linux, is remarkably SLOW, compared with XP on the same machine. In fact, it is not just the connection that is SLOW, but also the editor. I would type a character or three or ten, and the cursor would not move for four or five seconds. Haven't seen that since the days of 300 baud modems, in the mid 1970's, on my old apple II, or perhaps it was my radioshack TRS-80.
no argument here on that point, I know that I have LOTS of bad habits, but, I hope you would agree, that SEMANTICALLY, if not practically, it is also the case that unix users have developed some bad habits. Don't think so? Well, how about these:
fsck whatever...
/etc/ttys0
kill
term
What do you think when you encounter these words? I think of little children. Uneducated, "Lord of the Flies" type of kids, comes to mind. Are you using a "teletype terminal", are you using any kind of terminal? Heck no. Comeon. This is not 1957. That jargon was nonsensical in the 1960's when the guys working down the road from me, in New Jersey, invented unix. KILL ???? Childish. Linux is obsolete, old fashioned, and based on a fundamental assumption about computer architecture, which has been patently false for more than two decades: MEMORY is precious. No, of course not, memory is CHEAP, and the OS ought to reflect that fact, but Linux does not, hence, the old fashioned notion of a "SWAP" partition (owing to the dearth of (RAM) memory available, one assigns a portion of the hard disk to serve as a scratch pad). Bad habits indeed.
I cannot promise not to post again, on another topic, for you and osvaldomarques have demonstrated such skill, I only wish EVERYONE could partake of your knowledge, as I have been fortunate enough to do, these past few days....I have no intention of running ssh, and indeed have no idea what ssh means, nor do I plan to attempt "remote access", from any of my several computers. I do plan to run without passwords, if I can find out how to implement that detail.....
And, then, one wonders, how was it possible, all these DECADES, to survive without passwords on my computer? Hmm. "compromised", "infected", I run, twice or three times, daily, ad removal software from Lavasoft, which works well, and I have installed the AVG program which seems EXCELLENT, in my opinion, for minimizing trouble. It updates, by itself, daily, and sweeps the whole drive from stem to stern without my intervention every morning at 0800. Thus far, knock on wood, NO PROBLEMS. Every three months or so, I reinstall the whole os, with DOS, takes about 1 minute, with 95 about 5 minutes, 98 about 15 minutes, and XP about an hour. Slackware, now that I understand what is going on, does not take more time than XP, and probably could be shorter, if I knew better, what to eliminate from the whole package, which I have now installed on a couple of different computers....Wow, just to write that sentence, as though it were facile, now, to pick up a Slackware distro, and an hour later, have my computer accessing the internet via dialup, wonderful. Thanks again to you both!!!
Yes, indeed you are correct. thanks, yes, I know those guys at Bell Labs were doing their best to improve on the situation existing at that time. I am not suggesting that VMS from DEC was far superior (but it was far more intuitive, at least for me, than Ultrix.) I never used VMS on PDP-8 or 10 or 20. I used it only on VAX, in the 1970's, and maybe it had improved by then, compared with the early 1960's when the Bell Labs guys were working with DEC gear.....The problem, as I see it, is that networking, as we understand it today, did not exist then, and even today, is still evolving. Does the internet today access all 7 layers of the Open System Interconnect model? I don't think so. Most protocols just access TCP/IP, in essence, stopping after the transport layer. In those days, a hundred different people all needed access to the same "main frame" in an air conditioned room with elevated floors so the cables could run underneath the dinosaur computers. Permissions to read and write were paramount. Passwords represented a MINIMAL kind of security. DARPA had more stringent procedures for access. Most of this 1950's era of hysteria (today = post 911) has been carried over into Linux, as if copied faithfully by medieval monks working at the Vatican library in 557. Yes, osvaldomarques, I appreciate that these notions of protection and passwords and privileges have lots of merit in the setting for which they were intended. I simply do not, however, accept the notion that these same conditions still prevail today. Memory is essentially free. Individuals have a "mainframe" "supercomputer" sitting on their desktop, all to themselves, no one else bothering them.... We need an operating system that reflects the fact that the cpu sitting on most people's desktop is more powerful than the largest "mainframe" from 1970, well after unix was born. Even the slowest of my current machines can run circles around the fabled IBM360, which, in my day, was the creme de la creme. Linux does not bear witness to the hardware revolution. It acts as though we still live in an era of teletype machines. Perhaps nostalgia explains why my connection to the internet runs so much slower under Linux, than under XP, or, conversely, maybe Linux HAS IMPLEMENTED all seven layers of the OSI model, and therefore is so much slower.....