LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Home Forums Tutorials Articles Register
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Software > Linux - Kernel
User Name
Password
Linux - Kernel This forum is for all discussion relating to the Linux kernel.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 01-10-2023, 12:26 PM   #16
pan64
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Hungary
Distribution: debian/ubuntu/suse ...
Posts: 21,882

Rep: Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317Reputation: 7317

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotore341 View Post
Ahh I think I see your approach here. Would it be possible to use debian linux too?
obviously debian has a console (minimal) version, without gui. You can try that too, just I don't understand what are you looking for.
 
Old 01-11-2023, 04:28 AM   #17
fatmac
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Upper Hale, Surrey/Hants Border, UK
Distribution: Mainly Devuan, antiX, & Void, with Tiny Core, Fatdog, & BSD thrown in.
Posts: 5,499

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotore341 View Post
Ahh I think I see your approach here. Would it be possible to use debian linux too?
Possibly, but would entail a fair bit of work, I'm thinking.
 
Old 01-11-2023, 10:36 AM   #18
wpeckham
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDO, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 5,651

Rep: Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697
Quote:
Ahh I think I see your approach here. Would it be possible to use debian linux too?
When you talk about using a build process and code from other projects it may apply. Actually using other projects does not.

All Linux distributions consist of system utilities and user space applications from the GNU software collection layed onto a Linux Kernel with the module collection compiled for it, then with an added GUI overlay and configuration. If you want a kernel and shell combined so you do not need all of that you can only combine certain small portions of things while stripping out what is no longer needed because you will not be using those applications, modules, or services (or have them built into your new kernel mashup).

It sounds horribly messy, but doable. Success will require that you carefully consider each piece and simplify wherever you can. All of the structure that applies to enabling or securing a shell, for example, becomes useless when the shell is built in. PARTS of the process scheduling will still apply, but some of the rest becomes questionable. The entire user-space separation code becomes useless with the user already WITHIN the kernel.

You might almost better start with your own kernel.
 
Old 01-13-2023, 08:27 AM   #19
audiotore341
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2023
Posts: 42

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
Source for the kernel is available. Source for the shells are available. Building the minimal modules and a shell into the kernel would certainly be possible. Obscene, but possible.
Let me know what you come up with. I suspect several of us might like to take a look at the results.
Of course! I can send in some results if of course I have successfully done it!
 
Old 01-13-2023, 06:20 PM   #20
wpeckham
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDO, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 5,651

Rep: Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotore341 View Post
Of course! I can send in some results if of course I have successfully done it!
Great! Have you a GIT repository where we can download and examine the code? I would like to examine this OS in a kernel for myself, and I wager many others would as well.
 
Old 01-16-2023, 05:16 AM   #21
zeebra
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2011
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,832
Blog Entries: 17

Rep: Reputation: 638Reputation: 638Reputation: 638Reputation: 638Reputation: 638Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotore341 View Post
I'm made my own Operating system before and it was a really cool experience! But however I was interested in the linux kernel and how it worked. Then I wondered if it would be possible to make an OS with just the linux kernel. Now its only a kernel and I know but is it still possible to give it a shell and program it into an functional OS? if yes then correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that be a good idea? Linux already has support for many many devices and can run on tiny cellphones and crappy toasters. It can even run on something with very limited technology so thats why im thinking about this. It would just be pretty convenient
That's the most difficult part, to bootstrap the Linux Kernel with some appropriate software to make it boot into an "OS" (whatever software you manage to bootstrap). Then you'd need to be able to expand the OS after that, with buildtools.
Alot of distroes skipped this step (bootstrapping), by forking another distro.

But, generally the Linux Kernel comes with the GNU operating system and GNU tools and bootstraps into those. Alot of bootstrapping is now done with Busybox, due to ease. But it comes with no buildtools and no option for that, so you'd have to build externally for it.

PS. There are various options in the Kernel for how to bootstrap, where the default is /sbin/init (you could try booting into /bin/bash)

Ps2. The most modern and hands on approach, I think you can get with Gentoo. They don't really do it anymore, they skipped to "stage3" installation, but previously they had "stage1" and "stage2" installtions as well. That's probably not exactly bootstrapping, but "stage1" would be good experience to get a better understanding. Stage 1 Gentoo installations are still available I think (but generally not used).

Ps3. You could use a virtual machine environment to test these things.

Last edited by zeebra; 01-16-2023 at 05:32 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2023, 10:51 AM   #22
wpeckham
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, VSIDO, tinycore, Q4OS,Manjaro
Posts: 5,651

Rep: Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697Reputation: 2697
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
That's the most difficult part, to bootstrap the Linux Kernel with some appropriate software to make it boot into an "OS" (whatever software you manage to bootstrap). Then you'd need to be able to expand the OS after that, with buildtools.
Alot of distroes skipped this step (bootstrapping), by forking another distro.

But, generally the Linux Kernel comes with the GNU operating system and GNU tools and bootstraps into those. Alot of bootstrapping is now done with Busybox, due to ease. But it comes with no buildtools and no option for that, so you'd have to build externally for it.

PS. There are various options in the Kernel for how to bootstrap, where the default is /sbin/init (you could try booting into /bin/bash)

Ps2. The most modern and hands on approach, I think you can get with Gentoo. They don't really do it anymore, they skipped to "stage3" installation, but previously they had "stage1" and "stage2" installtions as well. That's probably not exactly bootstrapping, but "stage1" would be good experience to get a better understanding. Stage 1 Gentoo installations are still available I think (but generally not used).

Ps3. You could use a virtual machine environment to test these things.
Just punting here, but working up a set of external "utilities" to run from your unified operating system might just conflict with the goal of building the operating system into the kernel in the first place. One cannot avoid the entire GNU app collection by reinventing the entire GNU app collection.
 
  


Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It seems that in future Linux kernel itself will force the use of systemd blancamolinos Slackware 25 11-07-2013 02:38 PM
[SOLVED] Computer turns off by itself, then boots by itself to a blank screen Lyle Linux - Hardware 8 07-25-2010 07:27 PM
Upgrade my kernel and eth0 now calls itself eth1 and there's ONLY ONE CARD INSTALLED! CJ Chitwood Linux - Hardware 3 06-11-2007 10:44 PM
urpmi updated kernel source but not the kernel itself(??) tredegar Mandriva 5 02-15-2005 02:27 AM
Samba: Linux Not establishing itself on network, WinXP cannot see Linux either shassouneh Linux - Networking 5 07-27-2002 06:28 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Software > Linux - Kernel

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration