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Having trouble installing a piece of hardware? Want to know if that peripheral is compatible with Linux?

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Old 06-10-2010, 09:34 PM   #1
ncsuapex
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New Server Build (VMWare host machine)(advice needed)


So I'm looking to build a new server that will run VMWare server then 3-4 VMs.

Most if not all the VMs will be running Linux.

One will be my primary desktop(Current desktop CentOS 5.5 1GB RAM runs Apache, shoutcast as well as a few other server apps)

One will possibly be a MythDora VM(Currently already have a separate standalone MythDora box, might keep that one running) This one could be to test new Myth* OS's to see what I like.

One will be a general test VM to test other Linux OS's either to learn new OS's for work or to test new OS's to see if I want to switch

One possibly to take all my server APPS and run it on its on VM, leaving my Desktop as strictly a Desktop VM.


Was looking at this barebones on newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816101272) with this processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117225)


Not sure how much RAM I would need but I thought about starting out with 8GB and maybe moving to 16GB within a few months.



Any suggestions on a barebones server or an economical server that could be used as a VM server? Looking to spend under $1000.00


Thanks!
 
Old 06-11-2010, 02:10 AM   #2
Electro
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The system that you select is not enough to handle that many virtual machines. The reason is because each virtual machines requires about 1.5 times the amount of RAM that you gave to a virtual machine. If you gave a gigabyte to each virtual machine, about 6 gigabytes of RAM is needed. You will actually need at least 8 gigabytes. Yes, this is your plan to start with, but you will always need more RAM when handling virtual machines.

Go for AMD because you will get better benefits with AMD processors for what you are doing at a cheaper price. AMD processors scale better for virtual machines compared with Intel processors. Intel processors are good for a server that is running a stand-alone operating system or no virtual machines. AMD desktop processors does have support for ECC memory and their six core processors are cheaper than Intel, so you could get a six core processor and enough RAM while being within your budget.

Using programs like VMware Server is great for light loads, but running heavy loads with VMware or any virtual machine will show its ugly face. I recommend use multiple computers for what you are doing. One for serving, the second for media center, and other for desktop. For server, you could load multiple servers using VMware, but leave it for stand alone setups when handling heavy loads.
 
Old 06-11-2010, 03:41 PM   #3
jefro
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You would need to know your load right now and on each system. Without that we could only guess the minimum hardware requirements of the OS plus some overhead. Also we'd need to know if all VM's will be used at the same time. We employ a lot of VM's on servers. We try to spread them out based on use. At some point in the day one VM's usage will drop while another VM on the system will start to ramp up. You'd need to know the worst case and plan that way.


I disagree that VM's have such a negative effect. Too many top notch companies have server rooms full of VM technology. We have been slowly employing them across our business with great results. We normally employ two servers for failover and run 3-5 vm's each but that is based on loads.
 
Old 06-11-2010, 03:58 PM   #4
ncsuapex
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The VMs would be for my personal use and wouldn't be under heavy loads. I'm not serving to the general public or to customers. It's more for my learning and personal use. I've setup VMs for work and have a good idea about how they manage memory/cpu loads. I'm fairly confident 8GB RAM would be enough for now. But I do want to plan for expansion so I want to get a MB that can handle 16GB RAM. I'm more interested in getting opinions on motherboards and advice on Intel versus AMD(thanks electro). I'm fine with troubleshooting/setup/configure/install/etc. But I do struggle trying to build a computer from scratch. That's why I was looking at the barebones systems, give me a building block I can build on. Also had some suggestions from another message board using these components.


$105 - GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128405

$60 - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

$40 - OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341016



Quote:
Using programs like VMware Server is great for light loads, but running heavy loads with VMware or any virtual machine will show its ugly face

I'll have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I've ran VMs at my old job that were under quite a load and we had multiple VMs on one server and they ran fine. Granted the hardware was more powerful than what I'm looking for but I'm also not going to put that kind of load on my VMs.





EDIT: For reference. My current Desktop Running CentOS 5.5, running apache, shoutcast, KDE as my desktop as well as misc apps only has 1GB RAM and it runs fine.

MythDora is on a machine that has 2GB RAM and runs fine.

Last edited by ncsuapex; 06-11-2010 at 04:04 PM. Reason: .
 
Old 06-13-2010, 12:13 AM   #5
Electro
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I suggest go with AMD because an AMD system will be the cheapest to handle multiple virtual machines at once.

MSI 770-C45
ECS IC780M-A2
MSI 870A-G54

There are a lot more than this list. You may want to add NIC because Realtek NIC are OK for desktop, but not for servers. You will need to add a video card, so you can have access it during setting it up. I suggest a nVidia graphics card. You could with AMD/ATI graphic cards but only use drivers from Xorg for AMD/ATI cards for reliability.

Using desktop components for a server is OK, but I suggest find computer cases that have multiple 5.25 inch drive bays. About 9 bay should be at least for a computer case to house a server. You can then use removable hard drive bays that will hold three to five hard drives. You can setup RAID-10 or RAID-5 for better performance for VMware.

Like I said eariler, use ECC memory for better reliability and stability. Desktops do support ECC memory, but almost all AMD systems do since K8 or Athlon64 processors. Intel include it but only for the enthusiasts models. For both Intel and AMD systems the memory controller speed for DDR2 is 800 and for DDR3 is 1066. Any higher is over clocking the memory controller. For even better reliability and stability, you should see voltage of DDR2 to 1.9 volts instead of 1.8 volts. For DDR3, you should set the voltage to 1.6 volts instead of 1.5. ECC memory may also be stated as server memory, so you may have to go in that section for some eRetailers like newegg.com. For any desktop system filling up to all banks should have two double-sided and two single-sided memory or four single-sided memory. Double-sided memory puts a noisy load on the memory controller, so any more than two double-sided modules will hurt stability. Desktop systems usually take unbuffered memory.

If you want a six core processor, the following link shows the motherboard compatibility for a six core AMD processor.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3678/p...rted-at-launch

I still recommend do not run heavy applications on a virtual machine because performance will suffer. Your server apps will not load a virtual machine as much as multimedia programs. Accessing a virtual machine that is running a multimedia program like Mythtv over 1 gigabit network will have poor performance. You will need a 10 gigabit network to handle it, but still multimedia programs will suffer performance. For example running The Sims 2 under VMware Workstation 7 or higher, will have poor performance rendering about 5 to 10 frames a second. You will get better speed if you use multimedia programs when they are running on the host and not in a guest operating system. Mythtv includes VA-API/VDPAU to aid in decoding multiple video codecs. I have tested VMware with multimedia and it is not pretty. Video and sound playback relies on the CPU in VMware compared to them being decoded on the host. Basically running multimedia programs in VMware will penalize these programs by about five times compared if they ware run on the host.

If you still do not believe me, I have used VMware Server (GSX version) to play Starcraft I. It plays it fine, but everything slows down when there is a lot of activity or the game play is busy. Even the inputs are slow. I upderstand the penalty when run Starcraft in VMware, I can deal with it because VMware is the only way the game plays or draws correctly compared to Cedega or WINE. I was using the same computer that the virtual machine is running.

If you use VServe for multimedia appications or Mythtv then go for it because the penalty is only about a little or programs will seem they are running at host speed. The VA-API/VDPAU could be used, but I am not sure.
 
  


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