Hello everyone!

I would like to find out whether there is a possibility to get a computer for a server + desktop use at home which would have SCSI Raid controllers with HOT-SWAP Hard Disks? I'have a few spare hdd's of that type and would like to use them. The computer would probably stay on 24/7.

What I am trying to get to is ... the problem with such computer's electric power consumption. I have IBM Netfinity 5000 at home which I was planning to use for the purpose I described above (server + desktop) however it needs about 1 kilo-Watt per hour that is quite a big problem for me, because the building that I live in doesn't have a 'strong' enough electrical installation ... and after about an hour or two working with the Netfinity walls are getting warm, so I am aware that it can possibly damage the electrical installation of the building. So I am looking for something that would need less power and be a little quieter than the IBM server described above so that I could sleep normally having such computer at home.

Thanks for all the help!

Are you in Poland or Connecticut? It matters because it impacts my ability to speak about the quality of your electrical system.

A 1KW computer is sucking a LOT of power. Are you sure of your numbers? And, by the way, it isn't "1 KW/hr"; that is meaningless except if discussing rate of change of power usage. It is just "1 KW" which already is energy/time.

Yes, hot swap SCSI RAID is available for desktops, so long as you have the proper controller. Adaptec makes a number of good controllers, LSI Logic makes a couple, and I am sure there are others.

For reference, my desktop system has 4 hot-swap SCSI drives on an Adaptec controller in it (though I don't have them in hot-swap bays). I also have an NVidia 7800 GS video card on an Asus motherboard with an AMD 2700XP processor, 2 Gigs of RAM, ethernet card, and a bunch of fans - all for just about 500 Watts output (about 650 Watts input).

If your walls are actually getting warm merely from running your computer, you aren't looking at just damaging the building electrical system, you are risking a fire. If you are in CT, I would label the electrical system defective on its face; standards in the US have supported over 1500 watts per circuit for the last 100 years. If you are in Poland, I won't comment; could be you are using a 100 watt light circuit or some such and I have no clue what the design and construction standards there are or have been.

I am in Poland and I power outlets support 10A per room. And the server I describe uses 1,2 kW/h.

10 amps at what voltage? That should be enough power to run your computer. If your walls are actually getting warm from using the computer, and that warmth is wires heating in the walls, then you have a fire hazard. This could be a fault in the electrical wiring (very possible) or it could be that there is another load on the circuit that is resulting in an overload - but this should blow a fuse or trip a circuit breaker.

No. It doesn't. Period. I won't debate it with you; look it up. Watts is a measure of power, which is energy/time, or instantaneous energy usage. Total energy usage is watts * time. It is appropriate to speak of joules/hour or BTUs/hour (but both of these reduce to watts). It is not appropriate to speak of watts/hour, and that is specifically incorrect.

jiml8, physicist.

At the voltage of 240 Volts, so different than in the US, where is 120 V

The old Netfinity 5000 wasn't really built to be horribly efficient--I'm not surprised to hear it's a bit of a power hog.

That being said, keep in mind that not all hot-swap trays are the same--you will be limited on which machines are compatible with those hotswap trays... (assuming you mean the same kind from the NF5000).

All things considered... what I would recommend is replacing that server entirely.

Newer boxes can be amazingly more efficient (and some are, in fact, far worse) and quieter, to boot.

Do you really require hot-swap SCSI? Do you really require zero downtime for drive replacements? If so, keep in mind that most servers--even small ones--that support hotswap drives and the necessary backplanes tend to be a bit on the power-hungry side. The only time most admins are worried about power usage is when they are calculating UPS needs

If not, I propose a decent single-processor AMD X2 or Intel Core 2 Duo box with at least a 2.0 GHz CPU clock. Either of these will generate a lot less heat than a single- (or especially dual-) processor P2/P3 box. You could set up your new machine in an Antec P180 case, for instance, with multiple low-speed 12CM fans, an efficient EPS12V power supply, and 2 or 3 hard disks attached to a PCIx RAID controller from 3Ware or Adaptec--or just use software RAID in linux--it's good stuff.

I'm still a big fan of SCSI and SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) drives in the enterprise, but I stopped using them in the home years ago. For major file/print or database servers, sure--enterprise-class is the only way to go. But if you're talking about a box with very low load or IO levels... it's hard to justify the exponential price increase.

SATA drives can support hot-swapping without a backplane... it's not as "pretty" but it gets the job done. 3 or more 7200-RPM SATA drives in a RAID5 array can be pretty darn fast--and a fraction of the cost of SCSI/SAS for a home server.

You may very well save enough in electricity over the next few years that a new machine will pay for a chunk of its price!

Thank you for your reply. I know that there are far better better things for the home server use than the SCSI. However I'm pretty keen on having SCSI hot swappable hard disks with backplane. I have few spare hard disks that are SCSI compatibile and can be used in the way they were designed to be used. What do you think about Helwett-Packard Compaq PROLIANT ML330 G2? It's more of a strong workstation than a server, however it seems to support SCSI hot-swap HDs. Since there is only one vent it shouldn't make too much noise ... I don't really know much about the power consumption of that computer.

Or maybe you could suggest some certain server model that would not be too "power-hungry" and quieter than Netfinity?

240 volts at 10 amps is 2.4 kilowatts, assuming a fully resistive load. The server should be OK on that circuit. If there is a heating problem with the wires, then either the wiring is defective or there is some other load on the circuit. You really need to figure out if there is a wiring defect.

Also, the only reason SCSI isn't popular on home desktops is the cost. By the time you pay for the controller and the drives, the cost per Gig is anywhere from 4 to 10 times higher than an IDE or SATA drive. However, SCSI drives are very robust and fast. Personally, they are all I use for my workstation; I want the reliability and it is only recently that SATA has matched SCSI in speed.

There is some other load on the circuit... and can't really unplug that stuff. If I had no TV, no refridgerator, no microwave, radios ... the and the server and light were the only things that are connected to the circut it would absolutely be fine with paying bills. Since I have some other devices that I need ... such Netfinity server is an overload for my wallet

As I said, my workstation has 4 hot-swap SCSI drives and is using a bit more than half the power yours is using. The machine you have is a power hog. How many CPUs does it have?

The NF5000 can't support more than 2 (two) Pentium II or III "slot" processors.
If memory serves me correctly, I think it supported up to 2 (two) 350 watt power supplies, auto-sensing 110/220V.

lp449, I think you're going to find it's very difficult to find a reasonably power-efficient box if you're looking for things like a hotswap SCSI backplane (LVD drives or not), redundant power supplies, multiple SCSI drives, and possibly more than a single processor, etc.

My $.02 : it sounds like you want a speedy, efficient workstation. It sounds like your apartment needs one, not a big server box.

The ML330 G2 is a decent enough box... but it's nearly the same age as your NF5000. It might use a little less power, but that's mainly due to the fact it only supports a single power supply.

The problem here is that, if you look at servers from the next generation, that includes Pentium 4's, they are rather inefficient (in some cases even moreso) as well. You would more or less have to skip to rather recent offerings to see the really efficient systems utilizing the AMD X2 and Intel Core processors...

To top it all off: most true "server" chassis are not designed to be energy efficient. If that's your goal, look for workstation-class machines instead. You still can have your hotswap SCSI drives and fast video etc., but they tend to be smaller, quieter, and use less electricity. The newer boxes support more advanced power management as well, so you even could allow the box to enter a bit of a sleep mode while not in use--and yet allow it to wake up via Wake On Lan if needed from a remote connection etc.