Hi,

My questions are simple but I need a little insight at this point so that I can have some sort of roadmap to know where I’m going. I’m finding out that there is a dizzying amount of software that is out there for Linux and I would like to find out what works and what doesn’t.

As up to this point, I haven’t converted to Linux yet. It’s not a lack of initiative; it’s a lack or resources. Up until this point I haven’t had the money for a Drive to stick Linux on but in time that will be remedied. On the other hand I’m not a complete newbie because I have ran distributions in the past. Up until this point, my favorite has been Redhat even though it isn’t popular in some circles. But I have found that it supports the most hardware and it seems to be the most stable.

I only have two questions and my first question is simple. First, one of the things that is important to me are the programming end of the package. I have found, just “dipping my toe in the water” there is a lot of software out there for programming. To narrow down what I would want, it is probably best to know my background.

I really didn’t just fall into programming or just buy a book to start. Almost a decade ago, I was just like most poor dumb idiots, I entered a college program. At the college I was at they mostly pushed windows and that’s what I studied. In that time I had my primary focus on ASP, Visual Basic and C++. Well, overtime that has pretty much ran its course and now I’m looking to move on. Like some, I’m very disgruntled toward Microsoft and its becoming more of a bother then its worth.

My problem is the comfortablity factor, not with ASP because I have done so much of it and I have the .NET series but I found it to be a little more of a joke then anything so I never took it seriously. Also, it’s not a comfortablity with Visual Basic because that has pretty much ran its course as well. I had done it for a long time because its really a lazy mans language but I’m really sick of it and I don’t really even use it only to run small programs to take some manual work out of getting things done. But my ambition always had been C++, but I never fully “Bit the bullet because it can be such a brutal language but I still have the itch to program but I’m not sure if Microsoft is of interest to me anymore.

The problem is that I’m not sure of anything for programming outside of Microsoft. I have always used Microsoft Visual C++ and MSDN but I didn’t know if there was a package that was close to it. Years ago, I tried to get into Borland but I found it quickly confusing because I just hadn’t tackled enough of that kind of development. But part of the problem is that I know MSVC++ software very well and I’m trying to find something that is similar. Is there anything?

My biggest hope is that there is a windows version so that I can start getting use to it now so that it will make for an easy transition later. But being that I would like it to be a free distribution, I'm not completely optomistic....

My last question should be simple as well, it’s gonna be hard to get everyone to switch over to Redhat because there is another piece of software. I have someone here whom is a fanatic of the Sims 2 generation of games. Does anyone know if there has been a Linux version or something similar?

I have a friend that has been roped into Linux recently. He had a similar problem. Although he wasn't into MSVC++ that much, that is what he had used in school. We managed to track down CodeBlocks, http://www.codeblocks.org/, which seems to work quite nicely. It is also available for windows and Linux.

I don't think you will ever find a "just like" replacement for the MS products, but there are nice ones available you can become just as proficient with. I am not a programmer so other will have to point them out. This is the one I know of.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

PhilD

P.S. you might want to look into eclipse. It is java based and is also cross platform. I think it gets a little confusing though, http://www.eclipse.org/.

Michigan you say? Upper, Lower, Middle? Anyway I am going to get in hot water for saying this but.... Microsoft has the best programming tools. There is however a lot of fine tools in Linux though e.g. KDevelop and Anjuta are both fine programming tools, and if you like c++ you will love web programming with php in Linux it has more options that php in windoz does.

Bottom line forget .net and expect to take some time to learn a lot of new function calls but if you like control, Linux is the way to go.

I'm from South-West Michigan, right square in the arm pit of the universe......I live in a medium size industrial town......about 3 hours from the Indiana border......

Well, I probably will get heat to but one of the reasons I hadn't switch until now is that I like there development tools. Other then the fact that you have to sell a child to afford them. I just now feel like their off the rails both with XP and .NET.....I just think that both are a joke and frankly I find them unacceptable.....

I have tried KDevelop and it seemed nice but I hadn't tried anything sophisticated and right now i'm getting ready to take off the gloves and start getting serious about it......but when I tried it I don't remember being that overly impressed by the documentation.......also, all the information that I have up till this point is over MFC.......has anyone done some of the more advanced stuff with KDevelop?

Oh, and I really never did do PHP but I have looked into it and it seems like a much more powerful language then ASP since its based on VB......but the thing that hasn't impressed me is mySQL.......

But on the otherhand, I find SQL Server a bit annoying as well........that's just personal opinion though........

Codeblock?.......no, hadn't seen that - thank you.....

Well, I know that I won't get a completely compatable software and I didn't expect that........I just was trying to avoid shell shock from a complete change......I just mostly wanted something that felt like it.......it didn't have to be it......

At this point i'm still early on.........most of the code that I have done has been C.......I did some C++ and I haven't done any MFC........but I was getting ready to because its about the only language that I have an interest in anymore.....But I really am turned off by the .NET series so I'm not sure how much MFC i'm going to do at all.

I saw eclipse and downloaded the windows version and I really didn't get much.........it really didn't even seem worth bothering with.........but I will check out your new suggestion, thanks again....

I've never done any serious Windows programming, but you might want to check out some cross-platform libraries if you haven't already, for example boost (which includes a filesystem library) and wxwindows. Using these would allow you to get comfortable with them in Windows and then transfer to Linux, in theory continuing with the exact same code.

Incidentally, the main reason I started using Linux was for programming. Personally I've found it a lot easier to program in Linux (possibly because I am not willing to pay for Visual Studio and always had to make do with free alternatives). Most Linux distros have good package management systems these days, which allow you to install libraries with minimal hassle.

Your programming experience has been very different to mine though, the only language I know is C++, I kind of picked it up in passing rather than having any significant amount of training. I've never done any GUI programming, and almost everything I've written has been geared towards numerical/scientific type applications. Ironically I could never figure out how to use KDevelop or Eclipse, and I even started using g++ in Cygwin under Windows because at one point I was doing template programming and the errors would overflow Code::Blocks output, so I couldn't find out the cause of programming errors! Nowadays I write all my code in a text editor, write makefiles by hand and compile from the command line. This is obviously totally impractical for a project of any size, but it's all I know...

Are you near Kzoo if so this may help http://kalamazoolinux.org/

Yes I am, by 20 min.......I will look into this.......

I've heard of roaming groups of linux people..........but i've never met anyone involved..........

This could be interesting.....

I understand and actually thank you for your response.........but to give it the time that it deserves it should require a bit of a long qestion and answer......and I will do that tomorrow..........

Mostly because I think that the point that you made directly or indirectly deserves attention.....

They are very nice people as well as very helpful. Linux Question is my favorite online source for info but if you like talking face to face this is the way to go. The presentations that they have on Linux software often helps out on windoz apps also. Sometime the information is over the head of intermediate users like myself other times the info is at a beginner level. So if you attend and the first time it sounds like a foreign language come back again and most likely it will be more useful. I don't get to attend as often as I would like but I never regret when I do go.

I have had a chance to look into this and I see two critical flaws with it........First, and this is because of my own laziness, the exe when compiled is created but it doesn't open through the software.......there is alot of command prompt work that has to be done....it isn't much if your working on a large project.......but right now i'm just compiling and getting small samples of code so it would increase the workload exponentially......

At this point i'm reviewing so that I can have a place to move forward.......so its a little impractical in that regaurd....

The second critical flaw that I have seen is the fact that it doesn't create a workspace or project file to open so that your files are opened without adding them.......this would be a hinderence if someone is working with multipe C or CPP files along with headers......

But that's my two cents worth.......if i'm off base on this, let me know......

You have really brought up directly or indirectly a larger point that I wanted to hit on. One of the flaws that I see when C++ Linux compilers is that the programming groups spend most of their time making the software and very, very little time on the development of the documentation. And to me, if you coming into a language that you don’t know or you’re just forgetful like me, you can just look up commands it is so much easier with Microsoft. I know to this point is not so much the MSVC++ software but the resources that I have available to me.

I don’t know how anyone else feels but I have never seen a resource like MSDN for Linux. Because I would be willing to help with it if I ever found one but up until this time, I’ve never seen anyone do it. I think this is what has puzzled me up until this point because it would seem that this could be done with very little resources in a PHP format or a compiled HTML program like Microsoft uses.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not putting Microsoft on a pedestal for this because their information is rather rudimentary (even though their examples are solid). And to get the more advanced stuff you have to buy there books. I know I caught C++ 6.0 books when they just went out of print and I bought up everything I could and it hurt financially.

So can we go further with this? No, I haven’t checked any cross reference libraries because I thought that they wouldn’t exist……to me it would seem possible because code is just code but I didn’t dive into this yet……Second, has anyone even approached a documentation system like I had said?

I don’t know if it would work, but to me it seems like it would, if you get the right brains involved with the right resources….

I don't think they currently have anything like that, but if you're serious about helping create one, you might want to see if the Linux Documentation Project (http://www.tldp.org/) would be interested in adding programming documentation to what they've already got.


p.s. Is it just us people from Michigan on the boards right now?

Great let it be Linux, large cars, dead end jobs, and trailer factories for everyone.

And Battle Creek epitomizes that........I found out through experience that Factory work is like having a town that is dominated by gangs........either you run from it or you embrace it.......and it still kills you in the end.......all be it much slower.......