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Old 12-08-2007, 02:56 AM   #1
samwise17
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Where did all these recursive acronyms come from?


What is it with all these recursive infinite acronyms?

GNU - GNU's not UNIX
HURD - HIRD of UNIX-Replacing Daemons /
HIRD - HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth
WINE - WINE Is Not an Emulator
LAME - LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder

and I know I've seen a few others which I can't recall.
Who started all this? Richard Stallman popularised it but Douglas Hoftstadter talks about them in Godel Escher Bach published in 1979 (an awesome book by the way). Any one know any more cringe-inducing examples? Does anyone else except me find them annoying after a while?
 
Old 12-08-2007, 07:14 AM   #2
Simon Bridge
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym

Recursive Acronyms can be generated by a neat little utility called TIRAS* ... but what you really need to get ones like HIRD is an all-night coding session with lots of really strong coffee. Possibly while wearing a TIARA*. AMARA* coffee is good for this.

* TIRAS = TIRAS Is a Recursive Acronym Spoof
* TIARA = TIARA Is A Recursive Acronym
* AMARA = AMARA Means A Recursive Acronym

If you find these annoying then yau don't want to use or accept VISA (VISA International Service Association)

This sort of thing is quite new to the english language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
... but recursive acronyms have grown in such a way that there is no telling the first one. RMS says there was already a tradition amongst MIT hackers when he hunted up GNU. But it probably doesn't predate him by much. (Almost certainly one of the earliest recursive TLAs.)

How about: "google owns our good little earth"

But I leave you with:
Linux Is Not Undividedly Xenophile
(linux is very userfriendly, it's just picky about its friends)
http://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=11829
 
Old 12-08-2007, 07:18 PM   #3
samwise17
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Are you serious about VISA?! I can't find anything to contradict it but it seems too humorous for a big trans-national corporation.

EDIT: well it's in wikipedia so it must be true ;-)
 
Old 12-08-2007, 07:24 PM   #4
samwise17
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aah its in the Jargon File
 
Old 12-09-2007, 05:20 AM   #5
Simon Bridge
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Technically, Wiki lists it as a renaming (backronym).
There's a bunch like that.

Jargon file lists TINT as a candidate first recursive acronym ... hmmm, must come up with a TLA for this, it's a pain to write.

How about RDA = Recursively Defined Acronym, or REA = Recursively Expanded Acronym?
Hmmm... too forced.

Recursion In Acronyms Acronym?
Hmmm... No, perhaps not!

SRA = Self Referring Acronym?
Hmmm... it'll do for now.

Of course, technically, we want the TLA to be, itself, recursive. (SRA = SRA Recursive Acronym? SRA Refers to Acronyms? SIERRA Is Every Recursive Acronym? Ah - but it's not a TLA.) Nope - SRA it is.

Anyway, TINT is the proposed candidate for the first SRA, but no date is given. (Perhaps I should have just not bothered with the TLA...)
 
Old 12-09-2007, 06:41 AM   #6
brianL
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BRIAN = Brian Really Is A Nerd
 
Old 12-09-2007, 09:17 AM   #7
Simon Bridge
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Simon Is Most Obviously Nerdy
Bridge Runs Insidious Dark Grey Engines

Samwise Always Makes Wet Insteps Sorta Enlightening

Jeremy Easily Ranks Every Moderator Yo!

Time is mostly enigmatic
For Oberon rules
Sleep leaves every engineer pwned
Bye y'all, everybody.

Last edited by Simon Bridge; 12-09-2007 at 09:18 AM.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 06:32 AM   #8
brianL
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BRIAN = Brian Really Is Awfully Nice

 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:45 AM   #9
samwise17
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ACRONYMS = ACRONYMS Can Recurse, Often Not Yielding Many Surprises

[DIGRESSION] Also while on tricks of the pen, Column 8 in Sydney Morning Herald had an interesting thread today about various types of palindromes. Eg. mirrored palindromes, phrases and words that can be mirrored vertically/horizontally without change. Like ambigrams but with ordinary letters e.g
'bid' can be flipped horizontally
'SWIMS' can be flipped vertically
Also 'perfect palindromes' symmetric phrases that describe symmetric things, like 'terret' (a circular ring) 'level' and 'noon'. [/DIGRESSION]
 
Old 12-13-2007, 05:07 AM   #10
Simon Bridge
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SWIMS, flipped vertirally, gives 2MIW2 ... to map it onto itself, you've got to rotate it through pi (180 degrees).

How about: suspected Ancient Roman leet speak -

IIIIIIIVII
MOMP? BMST CZR R.XX.RZ!!!!!II!I!
 
Old 12-13-2007, 04:36 PM   #11
dasy2k1
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you also get redundant acronyms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
 
Old 12-13-2007, 08:44 PM   #12
Simon Bridge
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Mostly company names - I used to work for a firm called "MRL Market Research Ltd." Long acronyms can be abbreviated.

And embedded acronyms, and anti-acronyms... looking at the subject, it's actually quite amazing that we have any non-acronym words to use at all. After a while, we'll came to rely on the spaces between words to convey the bulk of meaning.
 
Old 12-14-2007, 05:29 AM   #13
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I've wondered that phenomena too. Doesn't make some projects sound professional no matter how well done they actually are.
 
Old 12-14-2007, 05:47 AM   #14
brianL
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AARGH! = Aargh Acronyms Recursive Give Headaches!
 
Old 12-14-2007, 05:54 AM   #15
samwise17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
looking at the subject, it's actually quite amazing that we have any non-acronym words to use at all. After a while, we'll came to rely on the spaces between words to convey the bulk of meaning.
That's quite interesting to think about. If no plain words are used, then do the acronyms still count as acronyms or do they become words? The only way around this is that EVERY acronym must then be defined only in terms of other acronyms.
 
  


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