You know what I find odd? Everyone whines/complains/criticizes about the closed source codes and the tight propietary and business manifestos of MS. But What i find odd is that if you think about it someone who is worse is probably Sony.

I mean Sony always trys to do some propietary format to compete the rest of the industry with and they push it along all theirlines (Read: memory stick) They have divisions for just about every electronic market. And they devolp and set a lot of standards as well.....I mean sure they have more competition but that company is just huge.

How come no one ever talks about them?

That's just hmmm, classic. Think about Sony also in the console market. It smashes both Nintendo and Microsoft in sales for PS2 and PS2-games. It has practically killed Sega's Dreamcast and Saturn and eventually Sega which does only games nowadays. Everybody seems fine with that...

Peoples criticize MS because they are huge. Most are just jealous or something. Truth is, there're a bunch of big companies out there too, be it clothing, movies, music or food market and nobody seems to care, or at least not as much as they do with MS.

I seriously don't care what peoples think, say or criticize anymore. I go ahead and use what does it for me... A modded Xbox is above anything else, if peoples want to support the crappy Final Fantasy and the poor PS2 go ahead, while I have over 10.000 games in my Xbox 200 GB HD waiting me to click the A button and run...

^^ Thats pretty much hopw I feel on the subject there are many other large companies just liek MS such as hmm Intel.....and the such the list goes on. for people to bash MS IMO is silly. So I started this topic to see if people actually hate MS due to moral values......

people arnt forced to buy sony, or watch village roadshow movies, however many people dont have a choice when it comes to the OS they use.

Small business relies on packages such as Quicken and MYOB for their accounts and stock. Migrating to linux isnt really an option.

Sony releases good quality products, everything i have had Sony (burners, minidisk, ps2) has performed well and for a long period of time. Windows on the other hand is shocking.

MS killed netscape, and has tried to kill mac

Correct me if im wrong, but sony is ok

Sony has killed Sega. Sony wants to kill Nintendo.

Sony makes you buy memory sticks for their camera mp3 players instead of using more open cheaper formats like SD or CF.


if I need to record things to BetaMAX or MiniCD's I am going to have to use a Sony device aren't I? Same with software if I have to use AUtoCAd or whatever then I need to use windows except the difference being MS isn;t getting money from AutoCAD sales.

I wouldn't say everything from sony is high quality either.Why do they always have these dead formats? Why do so many PS2's suffer from CD Read Errors?

Im not trying to bash Sony because heckIuse their PDA's and I like them but I am just saying I think many linux people like bashing MS just for the sake of doing it because its the linux "in" thing to do and not for moral reasons ebcause if that was true then heck you wouldn't have much of anythign left. Big companies do that they try and push the small frys out less competition for them = more money and frankly when you live in a capitalist society thats what people do.

Why do people work and try and get promoted......? So they feel good about themselves....well maybe but I bet its for more money. Why? Because you like having more money you can afford nicer things. If you made $150,000 a year would you be happy? Probably. But would you want more? yeah probably. I just find it silly to sit here and critisize MS even though I bet if you were Bill Gates you probably would do the same thing.

Maybe I don't see the difference but to me Sony is worse. At least MS they aren't pushing a long dead format or outdated hardware.

This is going to turn into a total flame war I'm sure... but I feel like giving my opinion so I will.

My biggest problem with Microsoft is not that they choose to make proprietary technologies. I don't think proprietary technology are the best way to innovate, but it is there choice to be open or not.

The same goes for Sony, or anyone else really.

What does bother me is the anti-competitive strategies of Microsoft (and certainly they aren't the only company that is guilty of this, just one of the most visible in the computer industry). When good products, whether they are open source, proprietary, or otherwise, are bullied out of existence because of the financial clout of a monopoly it directly hurts consumers.

I feel like Microsoft spends at least as much time figuring out how to beat up it's competitors as is does figuring out how to make there products better. Sure, Sony is also guilty of this. However, given that this is a forum related closely to an Operating System it makes a lot more sense that people bash Microsoft then somebody else.

lol, Sony didnt use underhanded tactics in their attempts to overtake nintendo and sega.

the ps2 isnt any cheaper

I feel there are no differences between your Microsofts, Sony and other big business. Microsoft just happens to be in a business where they were able to control a large portion of things but that doesnt mean they are any better (or worse) than other capitalist money hungry corporations. No one is worse than Ma Bell, the phone companies. Anyone who has done research can tell you that.

Actually, they did. Sony went and took a hole bunch of exclusive titles such as Metal Gear, Castlevania, Resident Evil and a hole lot more. Castlevania and Resident Evil made presence in Sega's Saturn on it's dying days though.

Things haven't changed much till now. PS2 is by far, the weakest of all 3 consoles, but they hold "better" titles then Xbox or Gamecube. We've seen titles ported too as FF to gamecube and MGS to Xbox because they were selling bad at PS2.

The console market has always been like this. It's the company who owns more titles and monopolize the current console generations than the one who offer great tools and hardware. Dreamcast is great and so was N64, but both got killed by an inferior system with more exclusive titles... (Saturn is a different beast though, great hardware but crappy to program for it, so it's dead was fair enough...ghe).

And MS does not use so much "underhanded" tactics as we think they do. Thing is, Windows is the easiest system to configure and install today for x86. You can try to prove otherwise as many "Linux Vs Windows" threads, but you know, we all know, Windows is dog proff. So it's not much as MS pushing their system to hardware sellers, but you bet many of them also prefer to pre-install Windows on it to make it easier for both of them (buyers and sellers). It's a two-edged sword, really.

Now, I'm not saying that MS does not push their OS and their standards into our trouts, nor I'm saying that Sony does crappy things (although PS2 is crap). But at the end it's: It's ok to Japan/Sony monopolize the console market, but wrong to MS monopolize the Desktop market. That's just plain silly, as is silly to hate Bill Gates for being rich. It's just like hating somebody for being poor...

Personally, I'd be happy if USA and Europe (mind you, not necessarily MS) takes over the console market from Japan. Since the beginning of time and space for me, I had to own multiples consoles to play my favorite games as Sonic, Mario and Megaman. I've invested more in consoles than games itself. Japan really does, pushes old hardware and offer very little fun. Look at the great multiplayer Xbox offers... no Sony or Nintendo ever took that step forward, and they've been at it for decades, while this is MS first shot on the console.

Sony is evil, Nintendo is evil and MS is not an angel by a long shot. Sun Microsystem has to be watched carefully too .

Man I pretty much agree with you. however I wouldn't say they are evil as an Operating Systerm and Entertainment ahrdware is not exactly detrimental to the survival of humanity. I would say they would be evil is they were mega food companies that were trying to monopolize the market and raise the rpice of food etc. As itis we have lotsa semi large companies doing that in teh US with prices regulated by the FDA

I think tis silly to call large companies evile specially consdering the number of jobs they create ad the fact that their health benefits are usually better then what the you could egt with out them. At least in the US. I liken this to my favorite thought I heard someone mention once. Just because a company owns most of the market doesn't make them inheritly evil. For if that was the case Swingline staplers would be evil tools as well for they own some 80-odd% of the market. yet no one is bringing them to court and think about how many thigns we staple a day :-p

Both are big companies trying to make lots of money. There are very few large companies that are totally ethical, Thats Business. Eventually things won't work for them no matter what they do. I watched a great BBC documentary about new coke, people hated it and it back fired on CocaCola. How long till Microsoft tried the "New Windows"? Or if the PS3 is released at the same time as another good console that is better in a major way? If that happens and enough people buy the competitors product game makers will move to.

Just my 2 pennies.

Boffy

I'd quote stabile007 and Boffy to say that I agree, but that would not add much . I don't think competition is bad or good, and to say the truth, that does not matter much to me. What I enrages me is when the final custumer gets hurt by the company tactics. An example is if Final Fantasy would be released to the Xbox. We all know that in the Xbox, the graphics would be great and the online play would be neat. But that won't happen thanks to Square only porting games to 100% japanese companies and Sony by holding license of the title.

The ones hurt at the end is the player, like me, who works 40+ hours a week or more and would love to play it's favorite game on the weekend with a nice cold beer.

This kind of problem appears less on MS operating system. Pretty much what is available in one system has a port or has an equivalent program/game.

P.S: I hate Final Fantasy, I think it's an abomination. Last title square did something that I respect is Chrono Trigger and that's it. I'm just using that title as example. Square did, released Final Fantasy to PC, because PS2 lack of good online play, but not to the Xbox because clearly Japanese companies are _scared_ of losing market share in the game console that they monopolize since Nintendo 8 bits. If I'd play some _good_ and _real_ RPG games, I'd stick with Morrowind, Star Wars: KOTOR and Fable. Bite me Sony...

lol The other reason I hate ports is they are made for the least common denominator: Read PS2

I think the big thing to remember here is its all about choice when it comes to sony or any other games console for that matter. But when we turn the tables and take a good long look at MS, it is no longer about choice. Average consumer walks into walmart/computer store to purchase a PC they are faces with it comming with a windows OS. Now software companies in small proportion are starting to port there software to other OSes and that in turn makes the linux user happy, but at the same time there are to many ppl out there that don't know the first thing about anything but MS products and are not interested in learning. Computers are all about p2p,chat,word processing,remote control,email and the such and there are people that need those things (not want). I don't think there is anything that compares to the corrupt business strategies of MS.

End of rant...

Corrupt yes but like I said its hardly any different than anyone else's business strategy. From 1990 -1995 Any Company X couldve came in on the OS business but Microsoft through slick tactics, hard nosed agression and shady moves was the company to succeed by stomping out the competition (Netscape) and other means to control the desktop OS wars. Apple couldve lowered their prices and shouldnt have made their hardware a proprietary format. Bad Move...or atleast they couldve developed an OS to rival Windows to run on X386 and similar type hardware. I liked computing during the days of Windows 95 when everything seemed fresh and new but MS got lazy and started becoming more and more greedy, with less emphasis on security, stability etc and more emphasis on being the end all on everyones home and work desktop first. Now in 2004 they have had egg on their face with all of the holes in their operating systems. I still us Windows but I havent bought a copy since 98. Some would call that stealing but I was given my copies. And how could I be stealing from a billion dollar corporation that bullied its way on to everyone's system anyway? Its like someone blowing the whistle on me for assaulting Mike Tyson. Hahahahhaa